I rounded down.
Agreed, though. Democrats in '08!
So what's wrong with "Admiral Janeway" anyway?
- Thread starter Star Treks
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I rounded down.
Agreed, though. Democrats in '08!
^I respectfully disagree...
But that's for another forum.
I think it's just that with certain things Kathryn Janeway did in the Delta Quadrant, some people would wonder why she got promoted so easily. Women in power are great, but they need to play fairly with the boys...
But that's for another forum.
I think it's just that with certain things Kathryn Janeway did in the Delta Quadrant, some people would wonder why she got promoted so easily. Women in power are great, but they need to play fairly with the boys...
You know how big a celebrity Janeway would be after getting her crew back relatively intact? There's no way thy wouldn't promote her to the Admirality.
I'm sure there's more than just one admiral in 001 who gives out assignments. Some admirals outrank others and they would delegate certain responsibilites to lesser ranks admirals. Or they'd be placed in rotation and it just happened to be Janeway's day to send crews out on missions.
Jessica_Alba said:
Personally, men are threatened by seeing women in powerful positions. Just look at the public's reaction to Hillary Clinton running for president as proof.
When I saw the thread title, I wondered how long it would be before someone played the gender card. I can't help but notice how DS9 fans don't play the race card, or TNG fans the nationalism card. Personally I think that deep down Voyager fans know that the show was crap and crying sexism is all they can do to defend it.
So she's a celebrity... That don't impress me much. That shouldn't be the reason for a promotion.
The very idea that the grossly incompetent captain Janeway get a promotion to admiral upon returning to the Alpha quadrant rather than a court-martial really irked me. Her presence in Nemesis made it the only Star Trek movie I refused to see in theatrical release.
I don't have the time to go into detail why I think Janeway deserved court-martial, but it is generally about her tendency to place her pride before anything else, particularly her mission (to return the Maquis crew to the Federation) and her crew's welfare. Her command of Voyager was a complete disaster, IMO.
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Jessica_Alba said:
Personally, men are threatened by seeing women in powerful positions. Just look at the public's reaction to Hillary Clinton running for president as proof.
As for me, being as I liked the way women were treated far better on Voyager compared to The Next Generation, "Way to go, Admiral Janeway!"
I can't discount that sexism might factor into why some people never took to Janeway. For me, however, I think the character was poorly written. Kate Mulgrew was a competent actress but I never really warmed to her. I had heard that Erin Gray or Linda Hamilton were considered for the role. I might've been willing to deal with the character's inconsistencies more if one of them had played her simply because I liked some of their previous genre work.
I'm not sure if VOY treated women any better than the other Treks. I mean Seven of Nine was a Barbie Doll come to life, and I think she was put on the show to definitely sex it up. So, her catsuits aren't that much different than Uhura's mini, Troi's catsuit, Kira's catsuit, or T'Pol's castsuit. However, I think that Uhura, Troi, and Kira were given more balance as characters and weren't as overtly sensual/sexual as Seven and T'Pol.
I didn't care to see Janeway as an Admiral because I didn't think her character was a great captain or her crew a great crew. Yes, they did a lot of 'great' things I suppose. On paper she was a great captain, but I never really believed it. The same way I felt about how characters on ENT would try to convince us that Archer was a great leader, essential to the 22nd Century and beyond. I never quite felt that. There were a few flashes here and there, same with Janeway, but neither one really convinced me they were great leaders or worthy of promotions.
She worked to prevent a mass invasion of our Universe by the 8472 aliens, stopped the Krenim Timeship which could've done major damage to the time/space continuum (even if that "never happened"), stopped history from being massively changed by that renegade time-captain in "Future's End", brought back lots of new technologies for the Federation to use, and dealt a major blow to the Borg.
If that's not deserving of a promotion, I don't know what is.
I guess it's a good thing it was the first officer killed in Caretaker instead of Captain Janeway or our universe would just be out of luck.
I suppose you could interpret Janeway's wrongheaded decisions that led to their being stranded in the Delta Quadrant, and her continued thwarting of attempts to reach home in a timely manner as evidence of prescient visions that her presence in the Delta Quadrant was critical to the survival of the Federation, and indeed to our entire universe.
My personal feeling is that Janeway was a mediocre captain who botched a fairly simple mission: to aprehend and return a group of renegade Maquis to the Federation. She stranded her vessel and crew thousands of light-years from home by willfully violating the Prime Directive, and then put them into unnecessary danger on a regular basis for years afterwards.
And the less said about the Borg the better, IMO. This was one of the worst aspects of Voyager in that it took a mysterious, virtually undefeatable antagonist and made them wholly ineffective against a single starship in their own home territory, thus totally negating everything we'd come to know about the Borg from TNG.
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I found not much wrong with Admiral Janeway. Frankly I was more bugged by the way the desk monitor slid out of the table, I much preferred the prior 'laptop' portable one, which could translate into a future holographic one. Not some monolithic slab out of the table.
As for Adm. Janeway, I expected it...what could compare to the DQ for 7 years? Doing milk runs as Captain in the AQ? It was inevitable Starfleet would promote her, both as a reward and to keep her out of trouble and to give her a break.
As for Adm. Janeway, I expected it...what could compare to the DQ for 7 years? Doing milk runs as Captain in the AQ? It was inevitable Starfleet would promote her, both as a reward and to keep her out of trouble and to give her a break.
Seemed to be enough for Kirk.
Him becoming the Big Giant Head of Starfleet after a return from what for all we know was a mundane five-year assignment that wasn't even completed is a bigger mystery for me than the Janeway thing.
Janeway had way more experience on commanding fleets of starships and formulating operational strategies anyway. Kirk was just the skipper of a single ship at best.
As for the number of times each of them saved the universe, I think it comes more or less even. But Kirk never did beat the Klingons decisively, while Janeway totally pwned the Federation main enemy of the day. Reason enough for at least one out of the three promotion steps she received!
Timo Saloniemi
Huh? It was never said canonically that Kirk's mission finished early. In fact, Richard Arnold pointed out, in one of the last "ST Communicator" magazines, that as early TOS episodes started with Stardate 1xxx.x, and the last were 5xxx.x, perhaps they did stretch over five years.
In addition, there were two seasons of TAS (albeit with random stardates) that provide 22 additional adventures within the 5YM. In TMP, Kirk mentions "five years out there..." referring to his 5YM.
Also, in Gene Roddenberry's TMP novelization, Kirk was honored for being "the first captain" to return from a five-year mission "with his starship and crew relatively intact". The publicity materials of TMP state that the Enterprise insignia was adopted by all of Starfleet to honor the ship for its feats.
Yeah, yeah... But on screen, all we see is three seasons of live adventures, which allows us to doubt Kirk's completion of his five-year mission (even if the sum total of his space hours comes to five years by TMP). That sort of pales against Janeway's seven seasons.
Although people in the Trek universe generally seem to remember who Kirk was, even after a century has passed, the uniqueness and worth of his exploits remains in doubt. To argue that "Janeway is no Kirk" is a sound approach as such, but should not rest on the assumption that Kirk was a unique or even exceptional Starfleet hero.
Timo Saloniemi
Although people in the Trek universe generally seem to remember who Kirk was, even after a century has passed, the uniqueness and worth of his exploits remains in doubt. To argue that "Janeway is no Kirk" is a sound approach as such, but should not rest on the assumption that Kirk was a unique or even exceptional Starfleet hero.
Timo Saloniemi
Not after her ship benefits from an extra 85 years of additional knowledge and tech.
I'm halfway through Christopher L. Bennett's The Buried Age and it's a nice that he was able to flesh out the familiarity that Janeway and Picard seem to have in this little scene from Nemesis.
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