So what's wrong with "Admiral Janeway" anyway?

[Star Treks]

I haven't been in the Movie message board for at least a year or so, give or take one or two posts. However, I seem to remember seeing (in several boards) people gripe about having "Admiral Janeway" in Nemesis. I didn't think much about it at first, but it has been starting to bother me, so I'll just ask: What's wrong with that?

I mean, considering she led her ship through 170 disasters, give or take a few, and got it back to the Alpha Quadrant, along with befriending Maquis enemies, defeating the Borg, saving the quadrant or the galaxy several times, etc. etc. it seems to make a lot of sense to me that she would be an admiral. Plus, the popularity of the story of the ship returning - the impact that would have in the news and on Federation culture - would mean she almost would Have to have been made an admiral, for PR.

So I guess I'm asking, why anyone would be bothered by this? If the stuntish nature of having Mulgrew in the movie is what bothered you, I can understand that. But as for actually thinking she shouldn't have been made an admiral? Ridiculous! Of course Janeway would have been an admiral. Or am I missing something?

By the way, if this has been discussed at length before, I apologize, but as I said I haven't been on this board in a while, so I'd love to hear your comments.

 

[CoveTom]

Well, a couple of things, at least for me...

1. I don't think Janeway would want to be a deskbound admiral. She seems to me to be the most like Kirk of any of the modern captains, and I think she'd want to be out in the heart of the adventure.

2. I can't accept Janeway as Picard's senior officer. As much as I like Janeway, I think Picard is the better officer. Of course, maybe Picard turned down a promotion to the admiralty.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Star Treks said:
If the stuntish nature of having Mulgrew in the movie is what bothered you, I can understand that. But as for actually thinking she shouldn't have been made an admiral?

Better Admiral Janeway delivering orders to Picard - and originally having banter about a mutual Andorian they knew from the Academy - than an earlier announced plan to have Picard chatting to Seven of Nine. Admiral Janeway is an efficient way to communicate where "Nemesis" is seated in the timeline, while furthering the plot.

Plus, it answers those Janeway detractors who felt Janeway should have been removed from captaincy for her many controversial actions over the previous seven years. Promoting her removes her from the coalface for a while. (And ST has a reputation for loony admirals no longer in the centre seat.)

 

[Star Treks]

CoveTom said:
Well, a couple of things, at least for me...

1. I don't think Janeway would want to be a deskbound admiral. She seems to me to be the most like Kirk of any of the modern captains, and I think she'd want to be out in the heart of the adventure.

2. I can't accept Janeway as Picard's senior officer. As much as I like Janeway, I think Picard is the better officer. Of course, maybe Picard turned down a promotion to the admiralty.

Those points make sense. My guess is that it is reasonable to believe that Picard has probably at some point or another turned down the admiralty. Do I have support for this in canon? No, but it makes sense to me.

As for the Janeway being an adventure-hound thing... true also, but there are probably two counters. First, she would probably not have minded a respite from adventure after seven years of weekly thrills in the Delta quadrant. I think she'd want a rest once she got home. Also, maybe it's just me, but it seems like she could always have been made "admiral" but still have privileges of a ship captain. I know the whole Kirk thing from the movies seems to dispute that, but from my perspective she had earned the rank of admiral, probably would have accepted the honor graciously, and after a year or so of getting back to normal, would try to grab another ship - maybe take a temporary demotion. I dunno what the post-series books say, but books are books.

 

[data68]

To me, Janeway showing up in "Nemesis" is just a painful reminder that we still haven't gotten a DS9/VOY movie.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Star Treks said:
So what's wrong with "Admiral Janeway" anyway?

Menopause?

 

[Nebusj]

Star Treks said:
I haven't been in the Movie message board for at least a year or so, give or take one or two posts. However, I seem to remember seeing (in several boards) people gripe about having "Admiral Janeway" in Nemesis. I didn't think much about it at first, but it has been starting to bother me, so I'll just ask: What's wrong with that?

Taking a guess (since I didn't care beyond the point that it's a bit annoying to have all the various shows' player-characters know one another): Voyager was never as popular as The Next Generation and -- honestly -- came out when people started declaring maybe we don't need so many Trek shows on after all; it built up a lot of bad karma (not always justified, but I have to admit not always unjustified either), particularly with a finale that was partly derivative and also partly ethically dubious.

So you have Janeway, to start with rather less popular than Picard, and who had built up some good reasons for fans to object, being put into a position of authority above the beloved Picard, well, that's going to get some people riled up.

(I've also seen it complained that according to Janeway's pins she was promoted to Grand High Poobah and thus skipped over the Middling High Poobah and Respectably Tolerable Poobah and so on other ranks, suggesting she got promoted more in one year than the entire cast of Next Generation did in fifteen years, combined. I can't tell the Admiral-level pins apart anyway.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

data68 said:
To me, Janeway showing up in "Nemesis" is just a painful reminder that we still haven't gotten a DS9/VOY movie.

Those shows simply didn't have the viewer numbers to make such a feature film a sure thing. The proposed DS9 IMAX experience probably would have worked: IMAX movies can screen only where there are IMAX cinemas, and that would have created its own buzz. (With an eventual DVD release, as per other IMAX films.) It would have been a Colm Meaney vehicle, and I was looking forward to it.

But a "Voyager" movie would have gone over with a dull thud. The purpose of VOY was already over and, really, after seven long years lost in space, would they really all pile back on the same vessel again? It sounds like the final moments of "Rescue from Gilligan's Island". Not to mention they'd have to find a way to get Neelix into the action.

 

[USS KG5]

CoveTom said:
Well, a couple of things, at least for me...

1. I don't think Janeway would want to be a deskbound admiral. She seems to me to be the most like Kirk of any of the modern captains, and I think she'd want to be out in the heart of the adventure.

Well like Kirk she could easily later consider the promotion a mistake, but also it is possible after 7 years of incredible stress she had enough, or that she was given an admiralcy for a specific reason, for example to command a task force being put together to explore the Delta quadrant?

2. I can't accept Janeway as Picard's senior officer. As much as I like Janeway, I think Picard is the better officer. Of course, maybe Picard turned down a promotion to the admiralty.

He did on-screen at least once back in season one of TNG. He has doubtless been offered it many times since but it is possible that he fell from grace in later years after Generations or Insurrection, where he did things there the Admirals are unlikely to like.

 

[Deleted 2]

I'd always subconsciously placed TNG and VOY in two seperate universes

VOY had too many dei ex machina, too many technobabble solutions, so it felt that Janeway's accomplishments were due to cheating more than anything else. An odd projection of disdain for a writing style onto a character.

 

[StewMc]

USS KG5 said:

2. I can't accept Janeway as Picard's senior officer. As much as I like Janeway, I think Picard is the better officer. Of course, maybe Picard turned down a promotion to the admiralty.

He did on-screen at least once back in season one of TNG. He has doubtless been offered it many times since but it is possible that he fell from grace in later years after Generations or Insurrection, where he did things there the Admirals are unlikely to like.

Or maybe he took Kirk's advice in Generations. "Don't let them promote you..." etc.

 

[InklingStar]

I like to think that after reading seven years of reports Starfleet Command wanted to keep her out of the center chair back in the Alpha Quadrant.

 

[Jessica_Alba]

Personally, men are threatened by seeing women in powerful positions. Just look at the public's reaction to Hillary Clinton running for president as proof.

As for me, being as I liked the way women were treated far better on Voyager compared to The Next Generation, "Way to go, Admiral Janeway!"

 

[Jon1701]

StewMc said:

USS KG5 said:

2. I can't accept Janeway as Picard's senior officer. As much as I like Janeway, I think Picard is the better officer. Of course, maybe Picard turned down a promotion to the admiralty.

He did on-screen at least once back in season one of TNG. He has doubtless been offered it many times since but it is possible that he fell from grace in later years after Generations or Insurrection, where he did things there the Admirals are unlikely to like.

Or maybe he took Kirk's advice in Generations. "Don't let them promote you..." etc.

Thats always been my take on it. Its the only way to rationalise Janeway being able to give Picard orders.

Would have been a nice touch to have it referenced in canon. Wouldnt have taken too much to drop a line into the exchange between Picard & Janeway.

Something like :

JANEWAY
The Borg, the Son'a, the Romulans.
You seem to get all the
easy assignments.

PICARD
Just lucky I guess, Admiral.

JANEWAY
Never considered a desk job,
Jean Luc?

PICARD
No, Admiral. An old friend
gave me a piece of advice.
Never take any job that takes you off
the bridge of your ship.
Thats the place you make a difference.

Janeway considers this for a moment.

JANEWAY
Good advice.

PICARD
Indeed.

JANEWAY
Good luck, Captain.

The transmission ends.

Picard sits for a moment, intrigued. Then he goes
to the bridge

INT. ENTERPRISE. BRIDGE. FOLLOWING.

Picard goes to his command chair:

PICARD
(To Helm)
Lay in a new course... Take
us to Romulus. Warp eight.

The crew is shocked.

HELM OFFICER
Aye aye, sir. Course plotted
and laid in...

RIKER
Romulus?

PICARD
I'm afraid the Opal Sea will
have to wait, Number One...
Engage.


I dunno, summat like that.

 

[MyCylon]

What bugs me personally about Janeway even showing up is that I think they totally killed the character throughout the seven year VOY run. In the end, I just didn't know what she was about anymore and felt the character was usually all over the board.
In other words, it's simply a character I didn't want to see again nor did I think the character deserved to reappear.

 

[Jessica_Alba]

If it makes you any happier, her voice was heard and her presence was felt once again when I went to Vegas last fall to checkout that "Borg Invasion 4-D" at the Las Vegas Hilton.

The movie was simply bitchin'. Expensive to watch, too.

 

[Trekker4747]

Jessica_Alba said:
Personally, men are threatened by seeing women in powerful positions. Just look at the public's reaction to Hillary Clinton running for president as proof.

As for me, being as I liked the way women were treated far better on Voyager compared to The Next Generation, "Way to go, Admiral Janeway!"

Speaking as a man, I find this a bit offensive.

First of all, I wouldn't mind a woman president. I think we NEED one, infact. I just don't want it to be Hillary.

First of all, I think she's far more interested in the POWER of the office rather than getting into it to help people/the country. She just comes off that way and though it could be argued other Presidents are the same way, Hillary just dosen't seem to "hide it as well."

Secondly, I don't like her politics.

Thirdly, I don't want dynasties running this country. It's bad enough we've had two Bushes, but to have two Clintons means only two families have run this country for 20 years as of the end of Hillary's first term.

Sorry, but no.

On the topic at hand.

I didn't like Janway giving Picard orders. Maybe that comes from being a huge TNG fan but, guess who was watching a TNG movie to begin with?

She was also a menace in the DQ with her constant violations of the PD. I can accept that she was given the promotion in a "put her in a position where she could probably do the least ammount of damage where we can keep an eye on her, since we can't imprison her for public relations reasons," but it just "bugs" that here she is giving Picard orders. When, im my mind, Picard is far superior officer.

 

[Kryton]

There are just SO MANY things to DESPISE about Nemesis, this one is just NOT one of them.

 

[Jessica_Alba]

Trekker4747 said:
Thirdly, I don't want dynasties running this country. It's bad enough we've had two Bushes, but to have two Clintons means only two families have run this country for 20 years as of the end of Hillary's first term.

Actually, 24 years.

Whether it is Hillary, Obama, or Edwards, I definitely would not want another Republican in the White House again, that's for sure.

Back on topic. Picard had his chance at a promotion way back during the 1st season in "Coming of Age," but he refused promotion to the admiralty. He does not want to be promoted, where as Janeway clearly did. His choice. Her choice.

 

[flandry84]

Maybe a little off topic but how many admirals in the fleet anyway? and why isn't a newly minted one like Janeway commanding a starbase in the hind end of nowhere?Surely officers who "made their bones" during the Dominion war would be assigned to sector 001.