So what's the next step?

[Smiley]

Some random thoughts based on your story:

1. Try to get your date times set up with clear understanding on both sides of what day and time you're meeting. Sure, things can come up, but this is not the first time there has been some confusion on this issue.

2. Single moms may not be the best people for you to pursue romantically right now. I'm sure a lot of them are great people, but unless you know you want fatherhood, virtual or otherwise, then you should concentrate on the prospects without children first.

3. Don't limit yourself to one person right away. After you've had a couple of dates, then you may decide to date a person exclusively. Until that strong relationship is established, there's no reason not to see multiple people.

4. As a thought experiment, ask yourself what you would do if marriage is not your destiny. A lifetime relationship is a worthy goal, but it should not be the one thing you need to be happy. Find something that is fulfilling to you, whether that's God, a hobby, community service, or whatever. Ironically, that goes a long way toward making you more attractive to others.

 

[Holdfast]

No, that's NOT what I'm getting at. Not at ALL.

Look, I don't normally give serious advice on this board, but I will this time because I think you're a good person at heart, because I've read your thoughts on this board enough to get a very small degree of insight into your thinking, because I'm feeling Christmassy and because I have more than several drinks inside me. I won't even bill you for the advice!

You need to decide who you are. Part of you desperately wants to be in a relationship, the other part is terrified of it. The part of you that wants to be in relationship just wants the relationship. It doesn't even want a particular woman, just the warm fuzziness of being in a relationship. WHY do you want this? I don't think you have a clear answer to that, which is why you're also terrified of it happening and then not getting the happiness you want.

Answer what a relationship MEANS to you, and maybe you'll have a better shot at understanding WHO you are at the moment. Then you have to decide who you WANT to be and think about how to get there. Again, a big part of you doesn't want an answer to any of these questions but would prefer the safety of predictability and security (even predictable unhappiness).

You really, really, really need to think about some of these deep, fundamental & scary questions. And if necessary, talk them through with someone who can help you at least understand the importance of the questions. Then try to find some strategies to begin to explore the answers. This is all a long, slow process.

THEN you might understand what's so very unhealthy with the story you've related, and my first reply.

Good luck. And I mean that sincerely, without a shade of sarcasm.

I appreciate the support and advice, but I still don't get it.

I know.

Some of those areas I highlighted are lifelong challenges. You won't get it in a few minutes or hours. Or even weeks or months.

Should I have been mad at her for being too busy to do the date? Should I not have been understanding towards a woman working two jobs and going to school and not having time? Because, that's the only other "problem" I read into the quoted sections of my post -that I just said "no I understand it is OK" when she "broke" our "date."

I'm not going to answer all these questions; you need to answer them yourself. What happened today is a symptom of an underlying, longstanding pattern. But you have to decide to want to work on both understanding the symptoms and the pattern. I've offered you a framework to begin to think about your life, but it has to be your choice as to whether you want to (or are ready to) approach those issues. Some people choose (either through action or inaction) to never ask themselves the questions I wrote about in my reply. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I'd advise you to at least think about whether you WANT answers to some of those deeper questions.

So I just called the friend. She seemed pretty nice.

As I said before, good luck.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I appreciate the support and advice, but I still don't get it.

Should I have been mad at her for being too busy to do the date? Should I not have been understanding towards a woman working two jobs and going to school and not having time? Because, that's the only other "problem" I read into the quoted sections of my post -that I just said "no I understand it is OK" when she "broke" our "date."



So I just called the friend. She seemed pretty nice.

Don't be mad at someone who has to work two jobs, etc for being too busy.

Be mad that she had an appointment with you and didn't call you to cancel.

Her boss asked her to work extra hours. With a gun to her head, he prevented her from making a phone call. Not.

Hooking you up with a friend, well see it this way: You are no more to her than she is to you, which at this point is nothing, just a name, a face, etc. There's no human involvement there, no feelings, no compassion, no consideration. You're just a name.

Which is OK. There are times in everyone's life where you just need a hook up. Fine. Get your feet wet.

But don't take this seriously because it isn't. It's not serious to her, it shouldn't be to you.

Trust me, there are women out there who will call you back when they say they will, show up when you have a date, drop casual plans to be with you, treat you like you are a priority in their life. Maybe not the absolute highest priority from the first date, but high enough to warrent a phone call and an apology BEFORE leaving you feeling like an idiot wondering why they didnt show up.

And you won't find someone who will treat like you are a priority while you are fretting about someone who doesn't. Don't worry about her. If she'd called to cancel, I'd say she had promise, but she didn't. That doesn't make her an awful human being, it just makes her someone you shouldn't be wasting even a second wondering about.

 

[Mr Awe]

Trekker, I think it was fine to set up something with the friend. Right now I think you just need to socialize, meet people, get comfortable with people, and, most importantly, get comfortable with yourself. While you won't necessarily find answers in others, I do think you can do with the practice of socializing. That should give you more confidence which can help you in a number of ways.

Right now I think getting comfortable interacting with people should be the focus of these interactions. Don't worry about a long term relationship yet. If one does come out of it, fine, but don't make that your goal quite yet.

Also, next time set up something concrete earlier! If you click during the first converstation set up a meeting a coffee shop right then and there. Don't just assume you'll figure something out later. Remove the room for confusion. And a lunch or coffee meeting isn't as intimidating as a formal date.

Mr Awe

 

[Noname Given]

No, that's NOT what I'm getting at. Not at ALL.

Look, I don't normally give serious advice on this board, but I will this time because I think you're a good person at heart, because I've read your thoughts on this board enough to get a very small degree of insight into your thinking, because I'm feeling Christmassy and because I have more than several drinks inside me. I won't even bill you for the advice!

You need to decide who you are. Part of you desperately wants to be in a relationship, the other part is terrified of it. The part of you that wants to be in relationship just wants the relationship. It doesn't even want a particular woman, just the warm fuzziness of being in a relationship. WHY do you want this? I don't think you have a clear answer to that, which is why you're also terrified of it happening and then not getting the happiness you want.

Answer what a relationship MEANS to you, and maybe you'll have a better shot at understanding WHO you are at the moment. Then you have to decide who you WANT to be and think about how to get there. Again, a big part of you doesn't want an answer to any of these questions but would prefer the safety of predictability and security (even predictable unhappiness).

You really, really, really need to think about some of these deep, fundamental & scary questions. And if necessary, talk them through with someone who can help you at least understand the importance of the questions. Then try to find some strategies to begin to explore the answers. This is all a long, slow process.

THEN you might understand what's so very unhealthy with the story you've related, and my first reply.

Good luck. And I mean that sincerely, without a shade of sarcasm.

I appreciate the support and advice, but I still don't get it.

Should I have been mad at her for being too busy to do the date? Should I not have been understanding towards a woman working two jobs and going to school and not having time? Because, that's the only other "problem" I read into the quoted sections of my post -that I just said "no I understand it is OK" when she "broke" our "date."



So I just called the friend. She seemed pretty nice.

Look:

1) If this is you testing the waters and wanting to try a serious relationship - stay AWAY from single moms, period. They're looking for someone to help pay for their past mistakes, because if the biological father of the kid were either still around, dependable and able to provide, she'd still be with HIM. And (understandably, but it's not what you want or need your first time out as it were) the child WILL ALWAYS come first; and you'll be a distant second.

2) There are PLENTY of fish in the sea. Don't ever settle or lower your standards or compromise because you feel loney, desperate, etc. If you're really serious you'll find the right person for you.

(And unfortunately I speak from experience with regard to #2).

3) Be a jerk. (And before you laugh, realize that if you're always 'the caring one' - you'll be the one who HEARS about all the jerks she's been with in the past - and remain the 'close friend' - who never gets laid.)

 

[Mr Awe]

^^ Interesting, I get the sense that's your autobiography.

 

[Trekker4747]

[

1) If this is you testing the waters and wanting to try a serious relationship - stay AWAY from single moms, period. They're looking for someone to help pay for their past mistakes, because if the biological father of the kid were either still around, dependable and able to provide, she'd still be with HIM. And (understandably, but it's not what you want or need your first time out as it were) the child WILL ALWAYS come first; and you'll be a distant second.

I don't think that is entirely fair. I'd rather not be with a woman with a kid (if I end up with someone I want to enjoy the child-less "honeymoon period") but single-moms need love too, and children of single parents need the role of the other parent if the biological one isn't in the picture.

This girl made it clear to me she wasn't looking for someone to raise her kid and the he was hers and she wants to make her own way -hence the two jobs and going through school.

After talking to second girl, she seemed nice enough but a bit shy (which is what I am) and, I dunno, I like the first girl more. She has a bit more personality to her.

I'm, hopefully, going to meet up with girl #2 this weekend but I've got to remember not to get my hopes up lest it blows up in my face... again.

Second Girl also talked self-consciously about her weight (she's 5'5 and a 145lbs -information she volunteered on her own) due to a post surgery medication she is on. My estimation of that tells me that's perfectly average and nice looking, but I dunno.

Sigh.

:bangs head on desk:

 

[Mr Awe]

Trekker, good luck this weekend. And don't worry about the comments in this thread about the woman and single Mom's in general. Obviously the posters don't know the actual person. And, it sounds like you're going into this with your eyes open. Just have fun and see where things take you. I think you just need some fun right now.

Mr Awe

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I can give two perspectives on single parents.

One of my first serious relationships, back in the 20th century, was with a single mum. We dated for 3 years, her daughter was 9-11 while we were together.

She never expected me to "raise" her child. The child was a great kid, I would babysit the odd week when the mum was doing an evening shift, we'd watch TNG (first season), listen to music, I'd help with her math, but I wasn't really doing any "parenting".

The father lived up north on a farm, the daughter would spend summers with him, and school year with her mum. The dad came down to do the change-up, we got on well and built her a loft bed together.

When I broke up with the girlfriend, it had nothing to do with her being a single mum, it was issues that would have been there regardless. Saying goodbye to the kid was the hardest, we both cried, and in retrospect I would have stayed closer to her as some kind of step-uncle or something, and I wouldn't have hesitated to do something like start a college fund for her, but in my 20's I didn't think about those possibilities. It was definately because of her that I knew I wanted my own children some day, and because of her that I'm as good a father as I am.

Now in my late 40's I'm a single parent myself, and I know quite a few others, many from my children's school. Dating, or even thinking about dating, is tough when 6.5 days a week is filled with work, picking up and dropping off at school, music lessons, sports lessons, helping with homework and projects, arranging sleepovers, playdates with friends, visits to relatives, etc. There is no social life available to even think about meeting someone, and if I did meet anyone I wouldn't have the time or the energy to go on a date.

Pretty much every single parent I know is in the same boat, it's miracle to be able to start something new. People with the best options can afford babysitters or have relatives available. I have a lot of sympathy for how busy Trekker's single mum-non-date was, as much as I have no use for her not calling him.

Trekker, about the second girl, don't over think it, just go, be funny, be yourself, get past the jitters and try to get to the point where a date isn't a cataclysmic event.

 

[Noname Given]

^^ Interesting, I get the sense that's your autobiography.

As I said, I've experienced #2; and had better luck being somewhat of a jerk at times (I've found over the years the women wabt to talk with 'compassinate' men, but don't want to hook up with one that often - YMMV). If I want to 'talk' or just 'hang out' in general, I have other friends for that.

As for the single mon stuff, NEVER went down that path myself, just heard a few situations from friends that tried that route. Never (luckily) fathered a child as yet (and ain't looking to either); of course that's mostly luck as I did some very dumb things with regard to women when in my college years.

 

[RAMA]

I understand she works hard but if she is SO busy she uses a dating service and then can't make it to dates, she is TOO busy to devote any time to you and probably not worth dating.

RAMA

 

[Trekker4747]

I understand she works hard but if she is SO busy she uses a dating service and then can't make it to dates, she is TOO busy to devote any time to you and probably not worth dating.

RAMA

Well, in her defense, it is the Holidays and she works at Wal-Mart and Michaels (a craft store) two places I don't suspect are "slow" this time of year, esp. the weekend before Christmas.

She's quitting one of her jobs in January (the Wal-Mart one) and she still professes she wants to meet up with me.

I dunno. Like I said, this is harder than I expected, I'm still considering backing out of the service.

 

[Puritan]

[

1) If this is you testing the waters and wanting to try a serious relationship - stay AWAY from single moms, period. They're looking for someone to help pay for their past mistakes, because if the biological father of the kid were either still around, dependable and able to provide, she'd still be with HIM. And (understandably, but it's not what you want or need your first time out as it were) the child WILL ALWAYS come first; and you'll be a distant second.

I don't think that is entirely fair. I'd rather not be with a woman with a kid (if I end up with someone I want to enjoy the child-less "honeymoon period") but single-moms need love too, and children of single parents need the role of the other parent if the biological one isn't in the picture.

Dude, don't be a doormat. Your use of (and payment for) the dating service shouldn't be dictated by what she may need. You're not a savior here. (And your apologizing downthread about how she didn't have enough time to have the courtesy to call you in advance, but that's okay because she must be really busy and you're so understanding... it's not your job to go out and be her defender; you need to go stand up for yourself as well.)

 

[Trekker4747]

Had my date with the "friend" tonight.

Meh. She was nice and OK but a little too... mellow for my tastes? IRL I'm a pretty quiet person and reserved I think I need someone who compliments me on that by being a bit more dynamic.

I liked the friend and everything but I don't think I could ever like her more than as a friend or aquaintance.

Sigh.

I still long for a chance to meet/see the original date girl. But I'm closing out her profile and I suppose will await my next "match."

 

[Mr Awe]

Trekker, it's great that you met the friend even if she's not your cup of tea. Right now you just need to experience going out with women in general. As I mentioned before, don't get so caught up with meeting the "one" right now, or even a long term relationship.

Meet various women, have fun, and learn the type of woman who suits you. If you get to meet the first match, fine. If not, that's fine too because you'll have other matches. You have more to look forward to. Just enjoy the process.

Don't "sigh" every time a meeting doesn't spark a long-term relationship. That's going to be the exception rather than the norm. It's also not the goal of each and every encounter. Enjoy the dates even if it's destined to be just two fellow humans having a pleasant conversation. There's still joy in that.

Mr Awe

 

[Trekker4747]

So what do I tell the friend? She seems lonely and her past relationship (where she was engaged to the guy) ended badly and she seems like she really wants someone too.

How do I tell her I don't think she's right for me? We've talked on the phone since then and I think she's getting attached/wants more.

How do I let her down easy?

 

[Noname Given]

So what do I tell the friend? She seems lonely and her past relationship (where she was engaged to the guy) ended badly and she seems like she really wants someone too.

How do I tell her I don't think she's right for me? We've talked on the phone since then and I think she's getting attached/wants more.

How do I let her down easy?

Just tell her the truth - again, as other people and I have been saying - don't be a doormat for other people. It's not your fault she doesn't inspire those feelings in you (although to be honest, if you still think she's cute, or physically attractive to you in some way, use protection and have a 'one night stand'; and just stop calling/don't return her calls afterward; again, this is where I say, 'be a jerk' and you sometimes have success at hooking up).

However, if that's not your style (and there's nothing wrong with that either); If you honestly don't have romantic feelings and don't want to continue a relationship (friendly or otherwise) be honest with her and say, "I'm sorry, I just don't think it would work out between us."; and end contact there. If you lead her on, and act like you have feelings for her when you don't; it's just going to make it harder when you finally do get miserable enough about the situatuion to tell her about your real feelings; and at that point, she'll probably feel worse about the whole thing. etc.

 

[Garak]

You make that hair doll yet?

 

[Smiley]

Be upfront and honest with any person, and especially woman, you meet. It will save headaches in the long run. If you would still like to be friends with her, tell her that. Sometimes people just don't have romantic chemistry, and it's better to hear that than some reason that belittles the other party in some way.