So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the reboot?

[Kegg]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

Any number of things can happen to the big events from the old Trek movies. A simple example: V'ger and the Whale Probe are both from a staggeringly huge distance from our present location. Who knows what could happen to them before they ever reach Federation space - they could be attacked or blown up by hostile aliens or disabled by spatial anomalies, etc. etc.

And then there's the 'somebody else does it!' defence. It's a big fleet, maybe the heroic crew of the U.S.S. Intrepid doesn't get slaughtered by an amobea and they get a couple of notches under their belt like the Doomsday Machine and negotiate the treaty with the Organians and what have you. It's sort of ridiculously easy to rationalise the non-occurrence of every single major event in Trek's future that is currently supposedly in motion, to the point I don't think Abrams & co. have to worry about it much. Honestly, Orci did his homework and came up with a pretty reasonable explanation for why he never has to worry about the canon ever again.

I'm not even sure what you're point is anymore but if it's that the whole film is all one big reboot with no ties whatsoever to existing Trek you're actually wrong.

Quite. The intent of the writers in staging the time travel story is completely transparent and how it fits in with their perception of canon has been further elucidated.

You can interpret even Nimoy Spock coming from an alternate universe to the TV one, but you could also argue that TNG takes place in a universe alternate to TOS and VOY is in yet a third universe, or that last week's episode of ENT was actually an alternate universe... and so on and so on. Let's just Occam's Razor this: It's clear what the writers wanted the relationship to the universe to be, and it's also the most straightforward explanation looking at the film proper.

 

[thumbtack]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

once Abrahms is done with it, we will never see it agian.

See? When there is still a level of denial this extreme, how can anyone say the writers made the slightest mistake in handling the reboot the way they did.

Orci did his homework and came up with a pretty reasonable explanation for why he never has to worry about the canon ever again.

Exactly. And the reward for the viewer is that no fan, however slavishly devoted to canon, will be able to predict anything that happens next. The butterfly effect and all that.

 

[Shazam!]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

Honestly, Orci did his homework and came up with a pretty reasonable explanation for why he never has to worry about the canon ever again.

There are elements of canon to be adhered to though, such as the aforementioned Khan/Giant Fish angle and whilst you could argue that a time-travelling wizard dog could be responsible for any pre-Kelvin changes, I don't think they'll take that route.

 

[Kegg]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

Honestly, Orci did his homework and came up with a pretty reasonable explanation for why he never has to worry about the canon ever again.

There are elements of canon to be adhered to though, such as the aforementioned Khan/Giant Fish angle and whilst you could argue that a time-travelling wizard dog could be responsible for any pre-Kelvin changes, I don't think they'll take that route.

Khan's floating around in the Botany Bay, deep asleep. Our heroes or somebody else would have to wake him up for him to become relevant.

The pre-Kelvin changes are debateable, as strictly speaking all we saw was, well, the Kelvin. Which we'd never seen before and was at a period between ENT and TOS we've also never seen.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

This film was always meant to be a new beginning for Star Trek. Let it be exactly that.

Sorry, but if women aren't allowed to have *SOME* form of an authoritative role in this reality, I'm not interested in where this new beginning is going to lead us. Remember, this is the time line where women aren't allowed to be captains of a starship, and given how poorly Uhura was treated (Being the most capable comms person but being put down TWICE before getting her position), I don't think we're in good hands.

I would rather stick with the Prime Universe so much more than this universe. We have Dax and Kira. What does NuTrek have?



And why should I even care about NuKirk? What's to like? I wouldn't follow his orders even if he was Captain, and I sure as heck wouldn't allow him to assume command of the Enterprise after what he did on the bridge before and after he was stranded.

First Uhura's bridge position is not too different different to her role in TOS, and her character is far more fleshed out than in TOS.

She was hit on by Kirk when he was drunk off his ass and looking for trouble, and she (rightly) put him in his place.

Then her transfer to the Enterprise was almost bypassed because Spock didn't want to have an open display of favoritism.

She pushed back and got to where she should be.

She also was the first to note the Alternate Reality hypotheses Spock was articulating, indicating again her intelligence.

Do you want to see a Woman Captain for the sake of it? Or do you want to see the crew take the official positions they had in TOS?

Do you want an additional character simply for the sake of activism, or do you want things to be true to what Star Trek ACTUALLY WAS in 1966 in terms of characters?

In TOS, Uhura's role rarely went beyond "Hailing frequencies open, captain". In this movie, she's fluent in 3 dialects of Romulan, a skilled technician and apparently was one of Spock's top students when it comes to Xenolinguistics, among other things.

I see nothing in this movie that demeaned her, or women, or precluded women serving in authority.

We have seen precisely 2 hours and 6 minutes of the alternate reality, and you are judging everything based on something simply not portrayed.

 

[The Comedian]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

The black hole propelled Spock and Nero (and friends) into the past of another timeline.

Perhaps ours, given the Nokia phone and the car and the Budweiser.

Let's just pretend that, at any rate.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

.

I'm not making that point at all. Actually, I'm stating that the film is an IN UNIVERSE reboot. That is to say, the alternate timeline is now the Prime Timeline. That it ostensibly stems from the prime timeline is interesting, but doesn't tell you anything useful about how this timeline will play out.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I also think the Vger story would be a good one to retell, and I think it would be crappy to gloss over it and let it happen offscreen. But Abrams did his damndest to respect what came before in many overt and subtle ways and I hope that this doesn't become a gaping hole in continuity so big that you could drive a 10km long alien machine lifeform built around an old earth space probe through it.

These stories would be pointless to retell. To Spock Prime, it's now common knowledge that the Probe was looking for whales and that V'Ger was only wanting to download its findings to NASA.

Just send a ship to V'Ger blaring the NASA download command code; POOF! Problem neutralized.

Earth has about twenty years or so to genetically engineer some humpback whales, and POOF! no whale probe.

As long as Spock Prime is there, none of these are threats. And as such, would be boring to be seen retread with different actors.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I'm hoping that the future of Star Trek isn't retelling previous stories

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I'm hoping Kirk becomes the Emissary to the Prophets just before getting the Enterprise stranded in the Delta Quadrant.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

Any number of things can happen to the big events from the old Trek movies. A simple example: V'ger and the Whale Probe are both from a staggeringly huge distance from our present location. Who knows what could happen to them before they ever reach Federation space - they could be attacked or blown up by hostile aliens or disabled by spatial anomalies, etc. etc.

Not to mention the Narada was in a Klingon impound for 25 years while Nero served on Rura Penthe, which would give the Klingons all this time to reverse engineer the 24th/25th century Romulan technology (and Borg technology, if that part is accurate) which would give the Imperial Klingon Cruiser Amar a major advantage against V'Ger.

 

[Nowhere Man]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

once Abrahms is done with it, we will never see it agian.

See? When there is still a level of denial this extreme, how can anyone say the writers made the slightest mistake in handling the reboot the way they did.

So you think that once we get two sequels out of this movie we and JJ. deciedes to move on along with his crew, we will still see this alternate universe? I doubt it. We will either see the prime timeline agian or something else, or nothing at all. Yeah the movie got Star Trek going agian, but all we will get is three movies that's it, it takes a TV. series to keep it going. Look at star Wars, everyone would lose interest if it werent for clone wars. A TV. series could continue this universe, but that's the only way.

Orci did his homework and came up with a pretty reasonable explanation for why he never has to worry about the canon ever again.

Exactly. And the reward for the viewer is that no fan, however slavishly devoted to canon, will be able to predict anything that happens next. The butterfly effect and all that.

.

I'm not making that point at all. Actually, I'm stating that the film is an IN UNIVERSE reboot. That is to say, the alternate timeline is now the Prime Timeline. That it ostensibly stems from the prime timeline is interesting, but doesn't tell you anything useful about how this timeline will play out.

I don't see the alternate timeline as the prime timeline, it's been said in interviews and the movie that the prime timeline are two seperate things. Do you ever watch the Universe on the history channel? One of the most recent episodes dealt with this issue. Imigine the universe is a piece of paper and parralel to that piece of paper is another piece of paper. These two pieces of paper could be identical or they could be slightly different, or they could be completely different. I think that the universe we saw in the movie is slightly different than our own, the prime universe. I also think that these are the theories that the writers were looking at and talking about when they wrote the movie.

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9i9N-Ez5Y8

 

[Nowhere Man]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I never thought i'd find myself agreeing with Hitler, but I do. I loved Enterprise though.

 

[Shazam!]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I'm not making that point at all. Actually, I'm stating that the film is an IN UNIVERSE reboot.

: |

Maybe if they'd put Quinto in old-age make-up you could kinda go "Well, maybe it's ALL unrelated to previous canon"

I still can. In fact, I just did. And I'll do it again whenever it suits me, because there isn't anything you could point to that would conclusively prove otherwise.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

"Are you people born dense or does it take practice?!"

LOL.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I'm not making that point at all. Actually, I'm stating that the film is an IN UNIVERSE reboot.

: |

Maybe if they'd put Quinto in old-age make-up you could kinda go "Well, maybe it's ALL unrelated to previous canon"

I still can. In fact, I just did. And I'll do it again whenever it suits me, because there isn't anything you could point to that would conclusively prove otherwise.

And your question is... what, exactly? It IS unrelated to the previous canon: previous canon has been utterly wiped clean, erased, cleared, nixed. It's gone, baby, gone. The writers can bring back exactly as much or as little of it as they see fit, or they can dispose of it entirely and start totally fresh.

As was, basically, their intention.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

LOL, only that the official intention is that canon is not "gone, baby, gone." They said that many times. Their excuse for not bringing back Shatner-Kirk was what? "He died in Generations, we would be violating canon."

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

LOL, only that the official intention is that canon is not "gone, baby, gone." They said that many times. Their excuse for not bringing back Shatner-Kirk was what? "He died in Generations, we would be violating canon."

I don't recall any such interview, but something tells me it would be a really weird excuse not to portray a 160 year old James T. Kirk try to travel through time as William Shatner.

OTOH, as I said, it's an IN-UNIVERSE reboot. If the "parallels" reference isn't doing it for you, think "Year of Hell," where some such event within canon actually erases a period of established canon. In this sense, established canon can be safely ignored, and any discussion about what might have happened in the prime universe is irrelevant. Interesting, but irrelevant.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: So what events from the prime trekverse are unaffected by the rebo

I don't recall any such interview, but something tells me it would be a really weird excuse not to portray a 160 year old James T. Kirk try to travel through time as William Shatner.

Well that's your loss then, because your assumption is totally not based in fact.

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1611116/story.jhtml

The scene was an attempt by the writers to adhere to "Trek" canon — which depicted Shatner's Kirk as being killed in 1994's "Star Trek: Generations" — yet still give him a presence in the film via a final recording he had taped before his death.
[...]
"If you follow 'The Next Generation' [TV show], elder Spock went off to Romulus to be an ambassador in two episodes called 'Unification 1' and '2', and [our] idea was that it was a long, long mission, and Kirk would have died by the time he returned to Earth [because they] just wouldn't have the same lifespan," Kurtzman explained of the Vulcan. "And so [this DVD] was essentially Kirk sending Spock a goodbye."

Believe it or not, but despite all the fucking with continuity and design by Nero's time travel, this movie is still supposed to be within the same canon. The author's said that.