Probably true. I always find it interesting when I see something like that.
It sounds like "The Klingon Gambit" isn't a great work of Star Trek fiction, LOL.
So What Are you Reading?: Generations
- Thread starter captcalhoun
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Probably true. I always find it interesting when I see something like that.
It sounds like "The Klingon Gambit" isn't a great work of Star Trek fiction, LOL.
^I love both Federation and the movie First Contact.
I had only read the first book in the Errand of Vengeance trilogy originally. I have now reread the first book, and I have read the prologue of the second. It is interesting to see familiar people, places, and events through the lens of a Klingon infiltrator and to see the buildup to the Klingon/Federation war that happened in 2266.
I had only read the first book in the Errand of Vengeance trilogy originally. I have now reread the first book, and I have read the prologue of the second. It is interesting to see familiar people, places, and events through the lens of a Klingon infiltrator and to see the buildup to the Klingon/Federation war that happened in 2266.
well i'm through chapter 11 of ex machina. and i got so wrapped up in it last night i took a break to watch "for the world is hollow and i have touched the sky" just to get a sense of yonada, the fabrini, the oracle, and what the heck natira looked like, again. a couple notes there before commenting on the book:
- the third season of TOS is wonderfully cheeky, and i still enjoy it, but more in a mystery science theater kind of way. that old "space hippy" getting zapped by the oracle was hilarious.
- also the oracle itself, which appears to be a star of bethlehem from a child's christmas pageant, made out of aluminum foil and painted gold. the hallways resemble a motor lodge outside fresno, california.
- the thing about watching the remastered HD episodes of TOS, especially season 3, is you can really appreciate how much they did with so little. they were literally making sets out of baling wire and krazy glue.
- i had misremembered and thought that mccoy got fatally sick on yonada, not that he found out he had a year to live at the very start of the episode.
i should like to note to @Christopher that my memories of first reading this in 2005 appear to have been faulty (and i was in my 20s versus my 40s). this is not a trek title weighed down with boggy exposition. in fact, the expository passages are delicious, the best parts of the novel imo! i especially liked the bit about light relative to warp speed, the sort of physics for dummies take (which makes a whole lot of sense!), but it's beautifully positioned as a setup for why this alien is patrolling, looking for people entering her system via warp.
other odds 'n' ends...
- "kirk the godkiller" indeed, this is a nice nickname for the guy who spend a handful of episodes talking computers into taking their own lives, or dethroning various alien deities.
- lindstrom. i had to look him up. from "the return of the archons" (the one with the red hour and landru and being of the body yada yada). since he's been given the first name of christopher, is he the mary sue of the tale? inquiring minds want to know.
- is the introductory chapter quote by john gill actually from the nazi planet episode, or is it crafted for this story?
- the scene with mccoy coming clean with natira and her throwing him out seemed overly dramatic until i watched "for the world is hollow and i have touched the sky." then the tone felt quite appropriate. in fact when i skimmed back over that passage, i could see the actress hamming it up just like on the show. it occurred to me that the next time i read a trek novel with strong ties to other material, i should just binge watch all of that right before i start reading, so everything is fresh.
- "spock, do you think i have a...pattern of abandonment" this will do as the essential description of episodic sci-fi until another one comes along. break something in an hour (or fix it) and then move on like nothing happened. shows that don't serialize, to extend the metaphor, must be "frightened of commitment."
- soreth strikes me as the kind of vindictive vulcan who populated archer's enterprise show.
- speaking of archer's enterprise, this is indeed the text where @Christopher explains its absence on the rec deck in TMP. the picture in the film, which i believe is a b̶o̶b̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶m̶a̶n̶ matt jeffries prototype? is noted to have been hastily put on display, and was "based on a vulcan design" because presumably by 2005 we have canon references to vulcan ships containing rings in their designs, is that right?
- nice fleshing out of the "weird yellow eyed dude with disheveled hair" as i think of him in TMP, the guy who defends decker in the director's edition after kirk leaves the bridge and uhura replies with her bon mot (which i think is nichelle's best line performance in the entire film).
- i don't know what you would have called tavero in 2005. but in 2020 i call him an incel. tavero: "i.....am not one that any of the girls would pick, when they are free to choose." dovraku: "i see. such and unfair system, wouldn't you say? this 'freedom'—it makes things better for those who can take what they want, and worse for all the rest." if the prose were sloppy, blue, and with a few misspellings, that could be taken right from a redpill subreddit.
- 1.) was spring rain introduced in this book? 2.) does she appear elsewhere in the novelverse?
- i haven't read the lost years in a really long time. is this book compatible with mccoy's post-TOS visit with natira in that text? whether it is or not, is that visit acknowledged by ex machina? retconned in any way?
- the third season of TOS is wonderfully cheeky, and i still enjoy it, but more in a mystery science theater kind of way. that old "space hippy" getting zapped by the oracle was hilarious.
- also the oracle itself, which appears to be a star of bethlehem from a child's christmas pageant, made out of aluminum foil and painted gold. the hallways resemble a motor lodge outside fresno, california.
- the thing about watching the remastered HD episodes of TOS, especially season 3, is you can really appreciate how much they did with so little. they were literally making sets out of baling wire and krazy glue.
- i had misremembered and thought that mccoy got fatally sick on yonada, not that he found out he had a year to live at the very start of the episode.
i should like to note to @Christopher that my memories of first reading this in 2005 appear to have been faulty (and i was in my 20s versus my 40s). this is not a trek title weighed down with boggy exposition. in fact, the expository passages are delicious, the best parts of the novel imo! i especially liked the bit about light relative to warp speed, the sort of physics for dummies take (which makes a whole lot of sense!), but it's beautifully positioned as a setup for why this alien is patrolling, looking for people entering her system via warp.
other odds 'n' ends...
- "kirk the godkiller" indeed, this is a nice nickname for the guy who spend a handful of episodes talking computers into taking their own lives, or dethroning various alien deities.
- lindstrom. i had to look him up. from "the return of the archons" (the one with the red hour and landru and being of the body yada yada). since he's been given the first name of christopher, is he the mary sue of the tale? inquiring minds want to know.
- is the introductory chapter quote by john gill actually from the nazi planet episode, or is it crafted for this story?
- the scene with mccoy coming clean with natira and her throwing him out seemed overly dramatic until i watched "for the world is hollow and i have touched the sky." then the tone felt quite appropriate. in fact when i skimmed back over that passage, i could see the actress hamming it up just like on the show. it occurred to me that the next time i read a trek novel with strong ties to other material, i should just binge watch all of that right before i start reading, so everything is fresh.
- "spock, do you think i have a...pattern of abandonment" this will do as the essential description of episodic sci-fi until another one comes along. break something in an hour (or fix it) and then move on like nothing happened. shows that don't serialize, to extend the metaphor, must be "frightened of commitment."
- soreth strikes me as the kind of vindictive vulcan who populated archer's enterprise show.
- speaking of archer's enterprise, this is indeed the text where @Christopher explains its absence on the rec deck in TMP. the picture in the film, which i believe is a b̶o̶b̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶m̶a̶n̶ matt jeffries prototype? is noted to have been hastily put on display, and was "based on a vulcan design" because presumably by 2005 we have canon references to vulcan ships containing rings in their designs, is that right?
- nice fleshing out of the "weird yellow eyed dude with disheveled hair" as i think of him in TMP, the guy who defends decker in the director's edition after kirk leaves the bridge and uhura replies with her bon mot (which i think is nichelle's best line performance in the entire film).
- i don't know what you would have called tavero in 2005. but in 2020 i call him an incel. tavero: "i.....am not one that any of the girls would pick, when they are free to choose." dovraku: "i see. such and unfair system, wouldn't you say? this 'freedom'—it makes things better for those who can take what they want, and worse for all the rest." if the prose were sloppy, blue, and with a few misspellings, that could be taken right from a redpill subreddit.
- 1.) was spring rain introduced in this book? 2.) does she appear elsewhere in the novelverse?
- i haven't read the lost years in a really long time. is this book compatible with mccoy's post-TOS visit with natira in that text? whether it is or not, is that visit acknowledged by ex machina? retconned in any way?
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Thanks! I appreciate it.
Lindstrom was given that first name in SCE: Foundations Book Two by Dayton Ward & Kevin Dilmore, after his portrayer, actor Christopher Held. I wrote ExM to be consistent with that tale, and thus I reused the name Dayton & Kevin gave him. I generally try to reuse established novel-continuity names for TOS background characters where they exist.
Yes, it's from "Patterns of Force." They're his next-to-last words.
Yes, that's what I was going for -- Soreth was a contemporary of ENT-era Vulcans and shared their values. I wanted to try to reconcile the two eras' portrayals of Vulcans, though I wrote this before ENT's fourth season and its Vulcan Civil War/reform arc, so I couldn't take that into account. I dealt with this in Rise of the Federation: Uncertain Logic by depicting the younger Soreth as a holdout who resisted the Syrannite reforms.
You mean Matt Jefferies; Bob Justman was the associate producer. But yes, allegedly it's a ship Jefferies had designed for an unproduced Roddenberry project called Starship, but from what I've been able to discern, there wasn't really much of anything to the project beyond the concept art. And yes, given that ENT based its Vulcan ringships on that very illustration, it seemed plausible that the reverse was true in-universe.
Extremist cults and terrorist groups throughout history have recruited angry young men by promising them sexual gratification. I was basing Dovraku's group more on al-Qaeda and other such groups worldwide, but yes, the radicalization of so-called "incels" follows very much the same familiar patterns.
1) Yes; 2) She's only briefly name-dropped in a couple of my later post-TMP books. I always hoped to do more with her, to give her an arc, but I haven't yet thought of a good storyline for her, or have lost track of whatever intentions I may have had for her in the past.
The Lost Years and the '80s novel continuity it was part of had already been contradicted by screen canon long before I wrote ExM, so I made no attempt to be consistent with it. At this point there are at least eight different versions of the end of the 5-year mission: The Lost Years; DC Comics' Star Trek Vol. 1 Annual 2 "The Final Voyage" by Mike W. Barr et al.; my own version alluded to in Ex Machina and depicted in Forgotten History; "Empty" by David DeLee in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 10; "A Bright Particular Star" by Howard Weinstein et al. in DC Vol. 2; the version in David R. George III's Crucible trilogy; IDW Comics' Mission's End by Ty Templeton et al.; and the version described in David A. Goodman's The Autobiography of James T. Kirk. And presumably IDW's ongoing Year Five comic is building toward a ninth.
@Christopher thank you kindly for your thoughtful and detailed replies!
i might add that i only collect trek novels from the movie era, or books which are connected in some way to the films (roughly the lost years stuff through to when we last see the TOS characters post-movies in the lost era books, things like your forgotten history stuff, the eugenics wars stuff etc).
you and @Greg Cox are my favorite writers of that trek period, bar none. it's really about the attention to detail, the didactic exposition (being an academic, i read primarily non-fiction)—much of it "future history" in nature—and of course not only the easter egg references (many being deep cuts) but also the often quite reasonable bits of explanation for inconsistencies and errors that are a far better approach than broad hand waving, imo. like that little touch about morrow being bad with dates to address the trek III line "the enterprise is twenty years old, we feel her day is over" in the higher frontier was pure gold.
i also greatly enjoy the extended "end notes" on your website for your trek books. have you got a patreon or a tip jar for that or something?
cheers
i might add that i only collect trek novels from the movie era, or books which are connected in some way to the films (roughly the lost years stuff through to when we last see the TOS characters post-movies in the lost era books, things like your forgotten history stuff, the eugenics wars stuff etc).
you and @Greg Cox are my favorite writers of that trek period, bar none. it's really about the attention to detail, the didactic exposition (being an academic, i read primarily non-fiction)—much of it "future history" in nature—and of course not only the easter egg references (many being deep cuts) but also the often quite reasonable bits of explanation for inconsistencies and errors that are a far better approach than broad hand waving, imo. like that little touch about morrow being bad with dates to address the trek III line "the enterprise is twenty years old, we feel her day is over" in the higher frontier was pure gold.
i also greatly enjoy the extended "end notes" on your website for your trek books. have you got a patreon or a tip jar for that or something?
cheers
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i remember the DC annual well, being a trek comics collector. the final frames are priceless:
I have both. My Patreon link is in my signature below, and there's a PayPal donation button on my blog.
The Fall The poisoned chalice
These Are The Voyages: Gene Roddenberry and Star Trek in the 1970's Volume 3 (1978-1980) by Marc Cushman.
This is, as it says on the tin, Star Trek in the '70's from Gene Roddenberry's point of view -- which, since he's been gone for decades, is based on the recollection of others, and massive quantities of his notes, memos, and screenwriting.
Gene was really NOT happy about being rewritten by Harold Livingston on TMP.
This is, as it says on the tin, Star Trek in the '70's from Gene Roddenberry's point of view -- which, since he's been gone for decades, is based on the recollection of others, and massive quantities of his notes, memos, and screenwriting.
Gene was really NOT happy about being rewritten by Harold Livingston on TMP.
Stargazer: Three by Michael Jan Friedman
Stargazer: maker by Michael Jan Friedman
Stargate: Rebellion by Bill McCay (Planning on a rerun through his novel series), though The Shadow Commission by David Mack is tempting me to take a break.
The first episode of the Positively Trek Book Club is up! Bruce and I are launching book-centric episodes of Positively Trek today, we hope that everyone who has enjoyed us on Literary Treks will join us in this new endeavour!
Positively Trek 25: Book Club: Strangers From the Sky is our first entry, and we're joined by special guest Margaret Wander Bonanno to discuss her classic hit novel!
I'm currently reading Deep Space Nine #8: Antimatter by John Vornholt. Never read this one back in the day, and I felt like some old-school DS9.
Positively Trek 25: Book Club: Strangers From the Sky is our first entry, and we're joined by special guest Margaret Wander Bonanno to discuss her classic hit novel!
I'm currently reading Deep Space Nine #8: Antimatter by John Vornholt. Never read this one back in the day, and I felt like some old-school DS9.
i wrapped up ex machina the other night. a couple notes / questions for @Christopher :
- alexander m brack,2073... saw your web note on the name, what's the origin of / context for the quote?
- spock's arc regarding "balance" is a nice thread which runs throughout the book. the chat with scotty re: how engineering is more intuition than logic was a highlight.
- the idea that people across the federation would have heard of the v'ger story in the news media of the time and interpret it however it suited their worldview is a really interesting idea that was followed up in the higher frontier.
- the arc for "ensign zaand" in terms of his loyalty to decker, how his homeworld's society's society deals with hierarchy, his final coming around to appreciate and respect kirk, and his untimely yet sacrificial death was a great story.
- the idea that the oracle was originally not as nutty as when kirk and crew found it in TOS, that it was later reprogrammed based on the new revolutionaries readings of texts which had been altered to look more fundamentalist to discredit the older regime was a super interesting take. in fact, that's probably the most interesting notion to ponder in the whole book: languages are not static, they evolve, they are subject to both organic growth and deliberate tampering. in this case, a secular government comes into power, and rewrites everything to make the society prior look extra special nutty. then they are overthrown by a new regime that says "let's make yonada great again" and they reference all these altered texts and end up establishing a schema which is doubly oppressive than the one which was actually overthrown. my summation probably seems confusing if you haven't read the book, but the mystery that was presented, the associated puzzles, and how it was finally resolved at the end was very satisfying.
- the bit about mccoy maybe writing a book one day on comparative alien anatomy... your web note mentions this is a voyager reference, but i swear this is something dax mentioned in the DS9 tribbles episode? or maybe that was just the joke about his "surgeon's hands."
- authors have their own way of conveying each trek actor's voice, for example having scotty say "canna" or chekov conflating his Vs and Ws. but i think @Christopher 's best device is his kirk ellipsis. especially...during the final speeches towards the resolution of the central plot points...what on TOS would be...kirk's big speech about choosing your own destiny...or encouraging a primitive alien culture to embrace the US constitution...using the ellipsis... gets...to...the...actual...cadence of shatner delivering his lines. which is super cool imo. i can "hear" the dialog, especially in the last chapters, as being the final act of a TOS episode. great, great stuff.
final assessment: ex machina is in the fifth quintile as far as trek tie-in novels go. like the best 'sequels' or 'continuations' in the novelverse, both TMP and "the world is hollow" come off looking far better for it, particularly "hollow" which i had deemed a rather forgettable third season entry.
one last aside: i've read from multiple sources (digital bits et al.) that an HD version of the director's edition of TMP is indeed in progress, but has stalled due to the pandemic. hopefully we will see a completed release a some point in the future. it's certainly on the top of santa's list for me!
- alexander m brack,2073... saw your web note on the name, what's the origin of / context for the quote?
- spock's arc regarding "balance" is a nice thread which runs throughout the book. the chat with scotty re: how engineering is more intuition than logic was a highlight.
- the idea that people across the federation would have heard of the v'ger story in the news media of the time and interpret it however it suited their worldview is a really interesting idea that was followed up in the higher frontier.
- the arc for "ensign zaand" in terms of his loyalty to decker, how his homeworld's society's society deals with hierarchy, his final coming around to appreciate and respect kirk, and his untimely yet sacrificial death was a great story.
- the idea that the oracle was originally not as nutty as when kirk and crew found it in TOS, that it was later reprogrammed based on the new revolutionaries readings of texts which had been altered to look more fundamentalist to discredit the older regime was a super interesting take. in fact, that's probably the most interesting notion to ponder in the whole book: languages are not static, they evolve, they are subject to both organic growth and deliberate tampering. in this case, a secular government comes into power, and rewrites everything to make the society prior look extra special nutty. then they are overthrown by a new regime that says "let's make yonada great again" and they reference all these altered texts and end up establishing a schema which is doubly oppressive than the one which was actually overthrown. my summation probably seems confusing if you haven't read the book, but the mystery that was presented, the associated puzzles, and how it was finally resolved at the end was very satisfying.
- the bit about mccoy maybe writing a book one day on comparative alien anatomy... your web note mentions this is a voyager reference, but i swear this is something dax mentioned in the DS9 tribbles episode? or maybe that was just the joke about his "surgeon's hands."
- authors have their own way of conveying each trek actor's voice, for example having scotty say "canna" or chekov conflating his Vs and Ws. but i think @Christopher 's best device is his kirk ellipsis. especially...during the final speeches towards the resolution of the central plot points...what on TOS would be...kirk's big speech about choosing your own destiny...or encouraging a primitive alien culture to embrace the US constitution...using the ellipsis... gets...to...the...actual...cadence of shatner delivering his lines. which is super cool imo. i can "hear" the dialog, especially in the last chapters, as being the final act of a TOS episode. great, great stuff.
final assessment: ex machina is in the fifth quintile as far as trek tie-in novels go. like the best 'sequels' or 'continuations' in the novelverse, both TMP and "the world is hollow" come off looking far better for it, particularly "hollow" which i had deemed a rather forgettable third season entry.
one last aside: i've read from multiple sources (digital bits et al.) that an HD version of the director's edition of TMP is indeed in progress, but has stalled due to the pandemic. hopefully we will see a completed release a some point in the future. it's certainly on the top of santa's list for me!
That would be great news. I'd love to see a Blu-Ray release of the DE. I have never bought the Blu-Ray of TMP to date because I live in hope the DE comes out on Blu-Ray. And to be honest, with progressive scan set on my player the DVD copy is pretty high quality, just shy of HD really, so I figured I could wait it out.
Funny aside though, last year they had the theatrical showings of TMP that I went to---I love TMP, it's my favorite Trek film, but that was the first time I ever saw the original theatrical edition. The first time I saw TMP was in the mid 1980s on VHS, which was the Special Longer Version release--then when I got the DVD it was the Directors Edition. So before last year I never saw the original theatrical cut.
Anyway, back on topic, I just finished "The Unsettling Stars" so now it's on to "Agents of Influence" by Dayton Ward.
The origin is me. I made it up, based on stuff I learned as a history major. "Brack"/Flint just seemed like a good character to ascribe it to.
Something that huge happening over Earth should have had a lasting cultural impact, and I'm glad THF gave me a chance to explore its longer-term influence.
Glad it worked for you.
Dax only mentioned having known McCoy. The textbook was mentioned in VGR: "Message in a Bottle."
I hope so.
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