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so the producers and writers said that discovery will lead into TOS (60's aesthetics and all)...

I'm sorry, are you suggesting I pretend we see those intentionally unique and redesigned DSC Klingons and Klingon ships in any other Trek series? Because I can assure you that we don't in 13 movies and 700+ episodes.
So you're just going to ignore this, then? We never saw the DSC ships themselves, but we saw others at least as different from your standard battlecruiser/BoP design lineages as they are—in fact, a couple of the DSC designs are actually closer to the "classics" than those—suggesting there has always been greater variety out there than we might have thought based on more frequent re-use of just a few designs.

Klingons were depicted as monolithic.
They really weren't.

Now they're being depicted as a different kind of monolithic society
They really aren't.

where they all uniformly don't have hair. Where they all uniformly have the reimagined makeup, including neck ridges and skin colours never before seen

[...]

In real life, they swapped out one look for the other (once again, deliberately) for another one. You've cited Twitter and outside sources to justify your position before. Those same sources explain why the DSC Klingons are bald and it's incompatible with Klingons having hair in other Trek series'. Oops.
So, once again, just like they were uniformly depicted with re-imagined hair and makeup in TMP, for which Gene Roddenberry and Robert Fletcher also had their own behind-the-scenes ideas about the evolutionary origins of, which might too have seemed at odds with the way Klingons were previously depicted in TOS...

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Depicting_Klingons
It was Gene Roddenberry's idea that the newly added head ridges were actually an outgrowth of the Klingon spinal cord, proceeding up the back of the neck and over the head. (Star Trek Magazine issue 172, pp. 59-60) Robert Fletcher was of a similar opinion. While considering the Klingons as "a race of reptiles," he also thought their distinctive spines were from a type of crustaceans. (The Making of the Trek Films, UK 3rd ed., p. 52) "In my mind, all the bumps on the forehead and so forth are vestigial remains of a people that evolved like crustaceans, like lobsters, who have their skeleton on the outside of their bodies," Fletcher explained. "And over the millions of years, they've lost that complete outside skeleton, but now retain only vestiges of it."

...but which never meant TMP was supposed to be in a different continuity from TOS, and which was ultimately addressed and explained in-story, even if it took another couple of decades' worth of films and series for it to happen, and wasn't ever really necessary in order for most people to be nonetheless able to see it all as one continuous fictional universe.

-MMoM:D
 
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I'm sorry, are you suggesting I pretend we see those intentionally unique and redesigned DSC Klingons and Klingon ships in any other Trek series? Because I can assure you that we don't in 13 movies and 700+ episodes.

This isn't normal either
GWvXUGJ.gif


The reply would be "but...but.... it's newer ship than TOS :techman:" okay but they don't show this effect on the newer NCC-1701-A, NCC-1701-B, NCC-1701-C,NCC-1701-D, or NCC-1701-E ships either :thumbdown: We first see the throwing and swiping hologram effect on Nero's ship from 2387.
 
This isn't normal either
GWvXUGJ.gif


The reply would be "but...but.... it's newer ship than TOS :techman:" okay but they don't show this effect on the newer NCC-1701-A, NCC-1701-B, NCC-1701-C,NCC-1701-D, or NCC-1701-E ships either :thumbdown: We first see the throwing and swiping hologram effect on Nero's ship from 2387.
Then the tech is lost for reasons yet to be explored.

Because the story isn't done yet.
 
If anyone's seen CNN then, with the way things are going, they know we'll have this hologram effect in the 21st Century. Nevermind the 23rd or 24th.

It fell out of favor after a certain point. Then it came back.
 
This isn't normal either
GWvXUGJ.gif


The reply would be "but...but.... it's newer ship than TOS :techman:" okay but they don't show this effect on the newer NCC-1701-A, NCC-1701-B, NCC-1701-C,NCC-1701-D, or NCC-1701-E ships either :thumbdown: We first see the throwing and swiping hologram effect on Nero's ship from 2387.
We only ever saw the Enterprises-A, -B, and -C and -E a mere handful of times.

We have no reason to assume that sort of manipulation could not have been done with the holo-consoles seen aboard the -D an equally small handful of times, this being due to budget in real life, but in-universe obviously indicating either/both that their not being seen frequently didn't mean they weren't being used offscreen and/or that their lack of frequent use didn't indicate they were no longer around.

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Maybe Picard, being something of an old-fashioned no-nonsense type except where it came to Troi's uniform, had a standing order that "No one on my ship shall be throwing holographic shit around my conference or ready rooms! Just use the bloody buttons, will ye?"

It fell out of favor after a certain point. Then it came back.
Too complicated. That could never happen. It has to be a parallel universe.

-MMoM:D
 
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Besides, the whole point of all the references to "D-7 class" over the years is that it's an in-joke referring back to an on-set prank played by Shatner and Nimoy on Roddenberry during the filming of TOS...concerning heated disagreement over whether it was or wasn't in fact the correct designation for a particular ship type or not!

Really? I never heard that bit before...
 
Really? I never heard that bit before...
As related by Gene Roddenberry in his and Stephen E. Whitfield's The Making of Star Trek (1968), pp. 367-68 of the 1994 paperback reprint from Del Rey:

I WENT ON THE STAGE ONE DAY, AND THEY WERE ALL READY AND WAITING FOR ME, BECAUSE THEY KNEW I WAS REALLY EXHAUSTED FROM SOME LONG RE-WRITE SESSIONS. AS SOON AS I WALKED UP TO THE SET, BILL AND LEONARD BLEW A SCENE, BUT THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE AND BEGAN ARGUING VERY VIOLENTLY. BILL WAS SHOUTING AT THE TOP OF HIS VOICE, "LEONARD! WHAT DO YOU MEAN SAYING THIS IS A D-7 KLINGON SHIP! IT'S A D-6!" LEONARD SHOUTED BACK, "NO, YOU IDIOT, THE D-6 HAS FOUR DOORS OVER HERE AND THE D-7 ONLY HAS TWO!" BILL IMMEDIATELY SHOUTED BACK, "NO, NO, NO—IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND. YOU'VE GOT IT ALL WRONG."

WHILE ALL OF THIS IS GOING ON, I'M STANDING THERE, BEGINNING TO GET FRUSTRATED, WATCHING THE MINUTES TICK BY AND MENTALLY COUNTING THE MONEY WE'RE LOSING IN EXPENSIVE CREW TIME, BECAUSE THE CAMERAS AREN'T ROLLING. AND AS THE ARGUMENT CONTINUED, I'M THINKING TO MYSELF, "WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT? THEY'VE GONE TOO FAR!" THEN I BEGAN THINKING THAT I SHOULD REMEMBER WHICH IS THE D-6 OR THE D-7. FINALLY I COULDN'T STAND IT ANY MORE, AND SO I WALKED IN BETWEEN THEM AND SAID, "COME ON, FELLOWS, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. LET'S GET ON WITH THE SCENE." THEN THE WHOLE CREW BROKE UP LAUGHING. THIS WAS THEIR WAY OF SAYING TO ME, "HEY, TIME IS NOT THAT SERIOUS. RELAX A LITTLE."


The DSC folks played the same prank on us, this time!

-MMoM:D
 
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We only ever saw the Enterprises-A, -B, and -C and -E a mere handful of times.

We have no reason to assume that sort of manipulation could not have been done with the holo-consoles seen aboard the -D an equally small handful of times, this being due to budget in real life, but in-universe obviously indicating either/both that their not being seen frequently didn't mean they weren't being used offscreen and/or that their lack of frequent use didn't indicate they were no longer around.

lastoutpost123.jpg


lastoutpost126.jpg


lastoutpost135.jpg


child016.jpg


loudasawhisper004.jpg


Maybe Picard, being something of an old-fashioned no-nonsense type except where it came to Troi's uniform, had a standing order that "No one on my ship shall be throwing holographic shit around my conference or ready rooms! Just use the bloody buttons, will ye?"


Too complicated. That could never happen. It has to be a parallel universe.

-MMoM:D
They did not show this tech on Voyager, The Defiant, Deep Space Nine, or any other ship shown in the shows ever either except in the distant future. And now they show it regularly. It's unusual
 
You've cited Twitter and outside sources to justify your position before. Those same sources
explain why the DSC Klingons are bald and it's incompatible with Klingons having hair in other Trek series'. Oops.
I'm not sure how this is incompatible with hairy Klingons. When you start seeing Klingons with hair in DSC, will you say it's internally inconsistent, I wonder? Certainly the heightened senses have been established already, and even the hairiest Klingons have been basically bald (if you don't understand what I mean, google "Bill Bailey"). The ridges being an extension of their spine goes back to TMP, and can also be seen hinted at in TNG with Worf's spinal injury.

Technically, quotes from writers and designers would be inside sources. Outside sources would be, for example, ScreenRant, and indeed, they are often BS. These sources aren't required to "justify" anything, but they do offer insight into the creative process - something that you seem intent on being willfully ignorant of. Interestingly you gloss over the fact that the whole discussion above begins with a comment that existing canon history is integral to the design process, and yet still manage to conclude that this is evidence of an alternate approach. :shrug:

Yet you want so badly to pretend it fits seamlessly with what's been depicted for the previous 50 years you're going so far as to mock and belittle people who are pointing out the obvious.
It's you zar, who is rejecting reality and substituting it for a complicated Star Trek head-canon. And that's great, enjoy it! Just don't be a dick and try and force your imaginary view onto the rest of us.
It's incredible how deeply entrenched this agenda of yours is and how completely un-self-aware you've become. You've made it your mission for months now to convince people that their acceptance of the story is them being brainwashed by clever marketing. You've explicitly mocked and belittled not only other viewers, but the creative team themselves and what they're laboring toward. Your rejection of that is the epitome of headcanon.

I'm not speaking of alternate realities. I'm speaking of incompatible television show continuities. Klingons were depicted as monolithic. Now they're being depicted as a different kind of monolithic society - where they all uniformly don't have hair. Where they all uniformly have the reimagined makeup, including neck ridges and skin colours never before seen. Where they all uniformly fly in ships we've never seen before.
Don't mince words. You are speaking of alternate realities. One where Klingons are monolithic, and another where Klingons are another kind of monolithic. It may not be as explicit as the theory that FC and ENT are in a divergent timeline, for instance, but it's no less a fringe headcanon theory that defies the story as presented and will never be validated on-screen.

That we got a narrow view of Klingons for much of Trek doesn't "depict" them as monolithic any more than this depicts Worf as weak and incompetent. DS9 did much to correct that, but that doesn't mean there were two Worfs (in before Marsh tells us that DS9 Worf was one of the alternates from "Parallels"). Various episodes over the years have showed us that there is more to Klingons but humans are typically ignorant and racist toward them. DSC is taking that idea and running with it.
 
They did not show this tech on Voyager, The Defiant, Deep Space Nine, or any other ship shown in the shows ever either except in the distant future. And now they show it regularly. It's unusual
Voyager was always concerned about rationing power. The Defiant was a stripped down vessel designed only for fighting Borg. Deep Space Nine was an old Cardassian station. Not so unusual.

-MMoM:D
 
Voyager was always concerned about rationing power. The Defiant was a stripped down vessel designed only for fighting Borg. Deep Space Nine was an old Cardassian station. Not so unusual.

-MMoM:D
But DS9 and Voyager each had 7 years of screen time, so the law of averages dictates that most other ships are the same. You don't understand math and logic.
 
I say this as a hardcore TOS fan who used to moderate the TOS Forum -- so I come with some street cred -- but... I hope not. I can't buy going from looking like Discovery to looking like TOS in just 10 years and to go from DSC to TOS, in my mind, is ridiculous. One looks like one and the other looks like the other.

The only way I can mentally buy into this is if the Spore Drive puts the multiverse into play and Discovery somehow eventually ends up in the Prime/TOS Timeline. Otherwise, it's too much of a mental stretch for me. I prefer to think of Discovery as a visual reboot.

If it leads into it, it leads into it, and that's what it is but I think there's a lot of suspension of disbelief you have to be willing to commit to.

But the same can be said for the jump for TOS to TMP, where everything looks completely different, so there we are. I've stretched my suspension of disbelief once before.

You can ignore the aesthetics in the thread title, that is wrong. No one from production said that would happen.
One person on the team did say computer screens would get more colourful, that is about it.

DSC is a visual reboot.
 
You can ignore the aesthetics in the thread title, that is wrong. No one from production said that would happen.
One person on the team did say computer screens would get more colourful, that is about it.

DSC is a visual reboot.

Works for me, then.
 
So you're just going to ignore this, then? We never saw the DSC ships themselves, but we saw others at least as different from your standard battlecruiser/BoP design lineages as they are—in fact, a couple of the DSC designs are actually closer to the "classics" than those—suggesting there has always been greater variety out there than we might have thought based on more frequent re-use of just a few designs.
Apologies, I missed your earlier post. Those other Klingons ships are basically Klingon green ship textures on various boxy arrangements, all intended as noncombatants. The DSC Klingon vessels are their frontline battleships, even with the same names as their ENT/TNG/DS9 equivalents but completely different designs.
...but which never meant TMP was supposed to be in a different continuity from TOS, and which was ultimately addressed and explained in-story, even if it took another couple of decades' worth of films and series for it to happen, and wasn't ever really necessary in order for most people to be nonetheless able to see it all as one continuous fictional universe.
But we all knew TMP (and later) Klingons didn't really fit in with what we saw in TOS. And with so much more lore added to the Trek universe in the meantime, so much time spent exploring the Klingons in TNG and DS9, yet we never saw any Klingons with grey or purple skin, or ridges down their necks. We all know the real-life reason - someone told a designer to come up with a new Klingon look unlike anything we'd seen before.

Whether that's enough to make it a separate real-life continuity to the original is up to the viewer.
I'm not sure how this is incompatible with hairy Klingons. When you start seeing Klingons with hair in DSC, will you say it's internally inconsistent, I wonder? Certainly the heightened senses have been established already, and even the hairiest Klingons have been basically bald (if you don't understand what I mean, google "Bill Bailey"). The ridges being an extension of their spine goes back to TMP, and can also be seen hinted at in TNG with Worf's spinal injury.

Technically, quotes from writers and designers would be inside sources. Outside sources would be, for example, ScreenRant, and indeed, they are often BS. These sources aren't required to "justify" anything, but they do offer insight into the creative process - something that you seem intent on being willfully ignorant of. Interestingly you gloss over the fact that the whole discussion above begins with a comment that existing canon history is integral to the design process, and yet still manage to conclude that this is evidence of an alternate approach. :shrug:
When we see Klingons with hair in DSC? Don't hold your breath.
The creative process proves deliberate discontinuity with what's been shown before. They cherry-picked the bits they liked, and ignored and changed the rest.

I like the new-look Klingons. I think their ship designs, although less original than the classic D7 and Bird of Prey, are pretty cool. But the Bird of Prey now has more in common with Stargate SG-1's Gua'uld Death Gliders than it does the vessel first seen in Star Trek III and the D7 looks like a truncated version of SGU's Destiny.
It's incredible how deeply entrenched this agenda of yours is and how completely un-self-aware you've become. You've made it your mission for months now to convince people that their acceptance of the story is them being brainwashed by clever marketing. You've explicitly mocked and belittled not only other viewers, but the creative team themselves and what they're laboring toward. Your rejection of that is the epitome of headcanon.
If the DSC creative team have an issue with me and my "agenda", they can drop me a PM. If the DSC marketing team have an issue with me, they can do likewise.

If the DSC writers have an issue with my pointing out that the visual continuity between their show and the rest of Trek is next to non existent, they can PM the art department because that's their problem.

Besides, I'm pretty sure the DSC producers and writers (and especially artists) are very much aware that their show has a different look to previous Treks, and that it breaks continuity here and there. I'm also pretty sure they don't mind one bit.
Don't mince words. You are speaking of alternate realities. One where Klingons are monolithic, and another where Klingons are another kind of monolithic. It may not be as explicit as the theory that FC and ENT are in a divergent timeline, for instance, but it's no less a fringe headcanon theory that defies the story as presented and will never be validated on-screen.
No. Alternate realities are part of the storyline, they're in-universe timelines. I'm talking about real life. Producers telling artists to ignore what's been previously established and replace it with something new, which is what's happened here. Compare with ENT, another prequel to TOS where the Klingons and their ships are pretty much the same as seen in the classic movies, TNG, DS9 and VOY. DSC could have had a look that fitted just as closely as ENT, but they chose not to.
That we got a narrow view of Klingons for much of Trek doesn't "depict" them as monolithic any more than this depicts Worf as weak and incompetent. DS9 did much to correct that, but that doesn't mean there were two Worfs (in before Marsh tells us that DS9 Worf was one of the alternates from "Parallels"). Various episodes over the years have showed us that there is more to Klingons but humans are typically ignorant and racist toward them. DSC is taking that idea and running with it.
While depicting Klingons visually with a deliberately new and incompatible look. And showing us none of the previous versions of Klingons, not even among the 24 Klingon houses (which would have been the ultimate time to do so if they wanted, among the holograms in the second episode). None of the old uniforms, hair, beards or starships.

It's nice that you choose to imagine all the new stuff alongside the old, but that's not what they're showing us. They rebooted the visuals. It wasn't an accident. And no amount of wishful thinking on your part is going to make it all slot perfectly together.
 
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