So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest eps

[CaptainStoner]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Well, considering I've just mentioned a couple of episodes I really liked from season 4, miracles do happen and that was what I was hoping for. I'm glad I kept going further with season 4.

Glad you've found something to dig in S4. Personally I think the show flowers most fully from 4-7.
I just popped in S4 "The Nth Degree", a Barclay episode, last night at random. (I think Barclay is the best '2nd string' character of perhaps all the Treks) I think its better than BOBW actually. If you haven't seen that one yet I hope its a treat. Even Troi is well-written in this one.

 

[Fish1941]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

I never understood a few things:

Why was the Borg so interested in assimilating Earth . . . only? Aside from one Federation colony and some planets in the Romulan Neutral Zone, they hardly touched any of the other planets and colonies in the Federation?

Why on earth did the Borg need Picard to assimilate Earth in the first place? Especially since they were more technically advanced than the Federation?

Why didn't the Borg cube with an assimilated Picard, assimilate the Enterprise crew?

And I have a question in relation to "I, Borg". If Crusher and Data were able to remove Picard's Borg implants, why weren't they able to do the same for Hugh?

"The Best of Both Worlds" is considered one of the best TV episodes of all time by "EMPIRE" magazine. In my opinion, that accolade is completely undeserved.

 

[Captrek]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

(I think Barclay is the best '2nd string' character of perhaps all the Treks)

Honestly, I thought he was kind of one dimensional, but still interesting because it’s a dimension rarely explored in this kind of entertainment. Personally I think that Guinan or Garak is a much more complex and interesting character, as second stringers go.

And I have a question in relation to "I, Borg". If Crusher and Data were able to remove Picard's Borg implants, why weren't they able to do the same for Hugh?

Who said they couldn’t? At first they didn’t because they intended to program his implants with a destructive program and have him just plugged back into the Collective without having to be reassimilated. Later, they offered Hugh a choice between returning to the Collective and staying on the Enterprise. If he had chosen the latter, maybe they’d have removed his implants, but absent such a decision, there was no reason even to make the attempt.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

I never understood a few things:

Why was the Borg so interested in assimilating Earth . . . only? Aside from one Federation colony and some planets in the Romulan Neutral Zone, they hardly touched any of the other planets and colonies in the Federation?

I'm sure the reason they wanted to start with Earth was because it was the key member in the Federation. As Riker said it was the heart of their defenses. I'm 100% certain once Earth had been assimilated. They would have assimilated Vulcan, And/or, Tellar etc and then as Locutus tells Worf the Klingon Empire then Romulus. In fact, Hurley had planned in a follow-up to "Q Who?" to have Picard receive a distress call from Romulus and the Enterprise would have investigated and discovered that the Romulus civilization had been destroyed by the Borg.

Why on earth did the Borg need Picard to assimilate Earth in the first place? Especially since they were more technically advanced than the Federation?

Why didn't the Borg cube with an assimilated Picard, assimilate the Enterprise crew?

At this point in the Borg mythology it was stated that the Borg are interested in assimilating cultures not individuals. Picard was the exception because the Borg believed that by having a singular figure speak for them that humanity would respond more to it. Also I'm sure they believed that Picard, being the captain of the Federation flagship, which they considered intriguing given that it disappeared in their last encounter would hold tactical data to aid in their assimilation of the Federation--which as we saw at Wolf 359 was ultimately the case.

And I have a question in relation to "I, Borg". If Crusher and Data were able to remove Picard's Borg implants, why weren't they able to do the same for Hugh?

The inference in "I, Borg" was that Hugh was born Borg i.e. grown in one of those maturation chambers we saw in "Q Who?". As a result much like Seven of Nine, his body had grown too dependent on them that they were impossible to remove whereas Picard was a fully grown human adult at the time of his assimilation and at the point when he was retrieved he had only been assimilated for 6 days. Therefore, it was easier to extract the technology since he wasn't fully dependent on them.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

I'd say sell your DVDs. Honestly, if you don't like it, you don't like it.

Yep, that's perfectly fair.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

(I think Barclay is the best '2nd string' character of perhaps all the Treks)

Honestly, I thought he was kind of one dimensional, but still interesting because it’s a dimension rarely explored in this kind of entertainment. Personally I think that Guinan or Garak is a much more complex and interesting character, as second stringers go.

Hmm. I give you Garak (over Barclay), but having just watched DS9 end to end over the past few months, I'd call him a regular.
Guinan, to me is almost more an in-betweener, but I guess I'm splitting hairs.

As an afterthought, Geordi is kind of a douche when Barclay first begins to change in "The Nth Degree", this is before Reg starts to pick up an ego along with the brains.

 

[Captrek]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

As an afterthought, Geordi is kind of a douche when Barclay first begins to change in "The Nth Degree", this is before Reg starts to pick up an ego along with the brains.

He’s also kind of a douche to the precocious Vulcan ensign in “Lower Decks.” Maybe he has some insecurity about the people working under him being smarter than he is.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Haha, everybody here seems to hate Geordi. I never hear anyone saying anything nice about him here. Personally, I don't hate him, but I don't think of him as someone with a lot of standout episodes or moments. I don't have anything against him, but he's probably one of my least favourite characters.

Whenever people talk about how great Piller is, I just wonder sadly about Insurrection again. How is it that he did such amazing writing on TV and this is what happened when he wrote one of the movies? ARGH!

 

[clint g]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

I'll fes up, Geordi was my favorite character in the show

Sure he had his issues, especially with the ladies, but that's what I liked about him. He wasn't some super person. He felt like Joe everyman (well, a bit smarter than usual) and I enjoyed that

 

[Bones2]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Poor Geordi. The time he looked good was when rolling underneath the barrier in the nick of time during a coolant leak. His lack of luck with women was also funny. That Enterprise designer hologram (then the real thing), Aquiel...

And then the time he thought he had found someone, it turned out they were false memories planted in his mind by Romulans.

I find how he in in these games to be the logical explanation.

 

[Anwar]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Whenever people talk about how great Piller is, I just wonder sadly about Insurrection again. How is it that he did such amazing writing on TV and this is what happened when he wrote one of the movies? ARGH!

Executive Interference, and Patrick Stewart wanting the movie to be less dark after FC.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

I love TNG, but I don't think it has aged particularly well. Especially compared to current TV and movies, I can very easily see a newbie not liking TNG. It's very dry.

...like smokin' a chicken bone...

The problem is that it's too sterile. It almost makes me root for the Romulans. And let's be honest, the Klingons are waaay more interesting than the Federation is at this point.

I loved the technology of TNG(at the time it was filmed) but the interplay between most(not all) of the characters and the ridiculous political correctness of it is just tough to take sometimes.

What saves it? Certain eps are fabulous and certain performances are excellent. I think consistancy was a problem here though.

Yada yada yada...

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Poor Geordi. The time he looked good was when rolling underneath the barrier in the nick of time during a coolant leak. His lack of luck with women was also funny. That Enterprise designer hologram (then the real thing), Aquiel...

And then the time he thought he had found someone, it turned out they were false memories planted in his mind by Romulans.

I find how he in in these games to be the logical explanation.

Yeah, I mean cmon! He's romancing a hologram when the ship is going to be exposed to lethal radiation in like 15 minutes. I did enjoy him striking out again with Kristy on the beach though.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Why on earth did the Borg need Picard to assimilate Earth in the first place? Especially since they were more technically advanced than the Federation?

And from then on, in FC and VOY, that's what Borg did. They "assimilated" people. It contradicted the Q episode where they were introduced, when we found out they weren't interested in humanoids, only their technology. It was the technology they assimilated, not the people. Of course, then they were a collective, which was intriguing until they abandoned that in favor of a "hive" with a sexy queen.

Even in the Q episode, the Borg didn't seem very realistic. They cut off limbs and replace them with mechanical devices with whirring motors and small moving parts? Biology would seem to be more advanced than any such device could be. If the writers really wanted to make them seem advanced, they'd have possessed advanced biological technology that could augment their own bodies, improve their senses, strength, etc. Instead, we get these clinking clunking tin men with wires hanging off them.

The Borg were never very believeable, but at least when they were introduced they were intriguing and scary. Every future episode, including BOBW, slowly took that away until they became nothing more than a joke.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Executive Interference, and Patrick Stewart wanting the movie to be less dark after FC.

It was more than outside interference. Piller was a passionate writer, but I don't think he had a handle on that movie at all. According to him, it was supposed to be like the Magnificent Seven, which was an American remake of Seven Samurai. He said in an interview the idea was for this noble group of people to ride into town and save everyone, even though they had no real connection to those people. Noble, sure, but not particularly dramatic.

And, in fact, Piller is completely wrong. The reason Seven Samurai was so great wasn't because Samurai ride into town and save some poor villagers, but because the Samurai and the villagers had a very uncertain relationship. The villagers went after samurai for protection from bandits as a last resort because they had, in the past, killed samurai who were on the run, and samurai had been known to exploit and kill villagers. The two sides dealing with this relationship, a mutual distrust and hatred, as well as having to deal with their own past sins, as they struggle to become a single fighting force against a common foe was the heart of the movie's drama.

There is no such drama in Insurrection. There are no shades of gray for each side to explore. There is only back and white. Starfleet is good. So'na bad. Ba'ku innocent victims. Even the one Starfleet Admiral we glimpse in the "bad" role thinks he's doing good. Where's the drama? I don't believe any outside interference prevented Piller from infusing some sort of drama into the film.

Even the best players strike out once in a while. This was a case of Piller striking out.

 

[Anwar]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Even in the Q episode, the Borg didn't seem very realistic. They cut off limbs and replace them with mechanical devices with whirring motors and small moving parts? Biology would seem to be more advanced than any such device could be. If the writers really wanted to make them seem advanced, they'd have possessed advanced biological technology that could augment their own bodies, improve their senses, strength, etc. Instead, we get these clinking clunking tin men with wires hanging off them.

The Borg were never very believeable, but at least when they were introduced they were intriguing and scary. Every future episode, including BOBW, slowly took that away until they became nothing more than a joke.

Well, taking into account FX tech back then I think we can safely assume those devices they graft on assimilated peoples' bodies are more than just whirling gears but they didn't have the means of showing them as more advanced. As for augmenting their strength and such, that wouldn't assure the Collective mind controlling them and they would just all look like normal Zombies instead of robo-zombies and someone would still complain. In fact they'd complain MORE saying "These guys don't even look cool!" over people that don't look any different.

As for believability, if people can like the Cybermen and the Daleks there's no reason to reject the Borg.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Well, taking into account FX tech back then I think we can safely assume those devices they graft on assimilated peoples' bodies are more than just whirling gears but they didn't have the means of showing them as more advanced. As for augmenting their strength and such, that wouldn't assure the Collective mind controlling them and they would just all look like normal Zombies instead of robo-zombies and someone would still complain. In fact they'd complain MORE saying "These guys don't even look cool!" over people that don't look any different.

I've no doubt about that. Despite my complaints, at least they were interesting when they first appeared on TNG. A collective mind, with no central authority is an interesting concept. Writers like Brannon Braga couldn't handle an interesting concept, though, and had to fall back on the hive/queen motif in FC. Sad. They could have done so many interesting things with the Borg if only they had stayed true to what we had seen in "Q Who?"

As for believability, if people can like the Cybermen and the Daleks there's no reason to reject the Borg.

I didn't outright reject them for that reason, but the more they used the Borg, the more reasons they kept giving me for rejecting them as silly b-movie villains.

 

[Anwar]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

The Queen thing was more an Executive order than anything else (and Ron Moore was just as responsible for the stuff in FC as Braga), the Paramount Execs felt that an enemy that was not embodied in a single person would be too confusing for audiences.

As for what we saw in "Q Who?" compared to what we saw in BOBW, it wasn't that different. The Borg just decided that since the Federation believed in Authority figures they may as well have one as their "Ambassador" for their invasion in case it would make things easier.

 

[Zameaze]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

Despite my complaints, at least they were interesting when they first appeared on TNG. A collective mind, with no central authority is an interesting concept. Writers like Brannon Braga couldn't handle an interesting concept, though, and had to fall back on the hive/queen motif in FC. Sad. They could have done so many interesting things with the Borg if only they had stayed true to what we had seen in "Q Who?"

Y E S !!!!! Bull's Eye.

 

[flemm]

Re: So The Best of Both Worlds 1&2 is supposed to be two of the finest

I'll take a stab at describing what makes the Best of Both Worlds such a great two-parter. I was in high school when these eps were aired, and a casual fan of the show. You had people who had never seen a episode of Trek, or had never previously given a damn about it, talking about what would happen to Captain Picard. It was an unprecedented cliffhanger that has been imitated countless times ever since, in all manner of genres. That alone would place it among the most influential episodes of any show. That also makes it hard to recapture that original excitement, since the device has become standard-issue ever since.

Also hard to recapture is how awesome the Borg were at the time, given how they have been overused and watered-down since. I've watched plenty of television shows since, and I would objectively rate many of those shows as better than TNG... But none of them has ever matched the spinetingling awesomeness of that moment when Picard turns and tells the crew: "Contact Starfleet Command. Inform them we have engaged the Borg," or words to that effect. On some level, I do think you had to be there.

That said, the threat of assimilation by the Borg is still the ultimate threat faced by the Enterprise crew (or really any Star Trek crew), because it is that fate worse than death that destroys everything they have been striving for as individuals and as a society. The Borg are like a twisted mirror of the Federation itself, and of the concept that the "good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one."

The apocalyptic themes of the story, especially as evoked in Picard's conversation with Guinan in Part 1, have a depth and resonance rarely equaled in Trek. We know the Federation will likely prevail here, but the story asks us to ponder the inevitable truth: the end will come. Maybe not here and not now, but it will come. Contemplating the meaning of human life in the face of this truth is about as deep as you can get in any medium, but these episodes work just as well as a character study (Riker), and as a thriller.

That brings us to the many meanings of the title. These episodes are "The Best of Both Worlds" in that they seamlessly combine adventure with the philosophical elements of Star Trek. The title also refers to the Borg's strategy of assimilation, and to the Enterprise crew's exploitation of that strategy to engineer the Borg's defeat. Riker also comes to understand that he can have "The Best of Both Worlds" by remaining on the Enterprise.

Few episodes of trek have worked so well on so many levels.