So now we have CGI models of multiple ships…

[Deks]

It isn't.
Per STO Lore the Ross is a new design inspired by the Galaxy but using 2380s technology, but none of them are refits of existing Galaxy classes.

That's quite odd if you ask me and a bit of a waste of resources when a design very similar to a pre-existing one appears but it turns out to be a completely new class of ships.

The Galaxy class in the 2380-ies would likely be using technology of that era too... some may be a few years behind (depending on when they're next scheduled to go into spacedock or if the upgrades can be done by the crews on the go - which they technically should be able).

If the Ross was inspired by the Galaxy class, then why not just use existing Galaxy class ships to refit them?
Its a pre-existing hull, the raw material is there... it would be fairly simple to do with replicators, transporters and tractor beams.

Same with that Excelsior look-alike we saw (the Obena I think it was called?) on Lower Decks in season 2 (the one Sonya Gomez was a captain of).

While its overall shape is more oval and sports Sovereign class nacelles, bottom line is there was no need to make a completely new class of ships that looks almost identical to the pre-existing Excelsior class ships.
Would have been easier to just say it was a 24th century refit of existing Excelsiors in service rather than a new class (I mean, the thing looks nearly identical to an Excelsior as is... would have been easier to just use replicators and transporters to disassemble the saucer into base elements and replicate new oval one in its place. Same with the interiors and nacelles).
Some extra energy might be needed (depending on the resource requirements), but it still beats making a new ship from scratch.

 

[Dukhat]

The Gagarin class: originally a 25th century update of the DSC Shepard class. But the changes are so numerous that it looks fine as a completely different and original ship.

The Reliant class: Loosely based on the Miranda class, but a completely different design. Could be mistaken for an Akira class when looked at from the front from a far distance, but every other view is pretty original.

The Sutherland class: duplicates the general design of the Nebula class but has all original parts. Could possibly be mistaken for a Nebula class from a far distance.

The Ross class: looks 90% like a Galaxy class only with minor differences.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If the Ross was inspired by the Galaxy class, then why not just use existing Galaxy class ships to refit them?

Because they all seemingly blew up? Yamato, Odyssey, Enterprise (in like 4 timelines including prime)... a bunch of nameless background ones in DS9 fleets. That ship class was jinxed.

 

[jackoverfull]

That's quite odd if you ask me and a bit of a waste of resources when a design very similar to a pre-existing one appears but it turns out to be a completely new class of ships.

The Galaxy class in the 2380-ies would likely be using technology of that era too... some may be a few years behind (depending on when they're next scheduled to go into spacedock or if the upgrades can be done by the crews on the go - which they technically should be able).

If the Ross was inspired by the Galaxy class, then why not just use existing Galaxy class ships to refit them?
Its a pre-existing hull, the raw material is there... it would be fairly simple to do with replicators, transporters and tractor beams.

Same with that Excelsior look-alike we saw (the Obena I think it was called?) on Lower Decks in season 2 (the one Sonya Gomez was a captain of).

While its overall shape is more oval and sports Sovereign class nacelles, bottom line is there was no need to make a completely new class of ships that looks almost identical to the pre-existing Excelsior class ships.
Would have been easier to just say it was a 24th century refit of existing Excelsiors in service rather than a new class (I mean, the thing looks nearly identical to an Excelsior as is... would have been easier to just use replicators and transporters to disassemble the saucer into base elements and replicate new oval one in its place. Same with the interiors and nacelles).
Some extra energy might be needed (depending on the resource requirements), but it still beats making a new ship from scratch.

I seem to understand that the obena is bigger than the excelsior. Also, it isn’t that similar: it gives a similar impression, but most of the elements are actually quite different, it wouldn’t be that realistic as a refit (or course the TMP enterprise is even less probable as a refit, but let’s ignore that for now).

 

[Deks]

Because they all seemingly blew up? Yamato, Odyssey, Enterprise (in like 4 timelines including prime)... a bunch of nameless background ones in DS9 fleets. That ship class was jinxed.

Not quite.
Yamato was compromised by an alien OS.
The Odyssey was destroyed by a kamikaze run after suffering quite a lot of damage.
The ENT-D had a .... less than illustrius downfall (which Riker should have answered for if we re-examine just how badly he retaliated against a measly BoP).

As for several Galaxies that were destroyed in the war... the number of those is surprisingly small if you think about it.
So... 'jinxed' is the wrong word... nothing to do with that in fact.
Sets of circumstances weren't exactly favorable.
In comparison, the Ent-D pulled out of some tough spots vs its ultimate defeat at Veridian III in 'Generations'... and the Galaxy class in general seems to have become more capable over time.

 

[Deks]

I seem to understand that the obena is bigger than the excelsior. Also, it isn’t that similar: it gives a similar impression, but most of the elements are actually quite different, it wouldn’t be that realistic as a refit (or course the TMP enterprise is even less probable as a refit, but let’s ignore that for now).

To me, the Obena being made in the late 24th century makes less sense overall.
The overall design is just wrong for the era. Had it been made in the late 23rd or early 24th century as an Excelsior variant when the design made more sense, then yeah... but like this, its just 'out of place' compared to most other late 24th century designs... and it looks like an Excelsior with oval saucer, Sovereign deflector dish/nacelles.
To me that literally screams '24th century Excelsior refit' rather than a brand new design.

 

[Tuskin38]

Well if you're looking for realism, Star Trek is not the series for it.

 

[Deks]

The Gagarin class: originally a 25th century update of the DSC Shepard class. But the changes are so numerous that it looks fine as a completely different and original ship.

To me, that looks more or less the same because the overall design is the same with some hull changes. Maybe it would have been better to call it a 25th century Shepard class refit due to how similar they are.

TNG established a rather distinct look for ships... and VOY simply enhanced on that... but ST:O designs have a tendency to be less than satisfying in some respects.

Disco I think went and used some ST:O designs for the baseline ship hulls... which would be fine if they simply said they were the same class of ships.

The Reliant class: Loosely based on the Miranda class, but a completely different design. Could be mistaken for an Akira class when looked at from the front from a far distance, but every other view is pretty original.

The Sutherland class: duplicates the general design of the Nebula class but has all original parts. Could possibly be mistaken for a Nebula class from a far distance.

There is no Reliant class to my knowledge... only the USS Reliant in name. The class of ships to my knowledge remains Miranda class.

There was the USS Bozeman which was a Soyuz class starship. THAT was a different class of ships based on the Miranda - which would make sense since SF didn't seem to start having more versatile ship designs until the 24th century... so more specialized classess (aka ,variants) based off existing ones in the 23rd century make sense.

As for the Nebula class... those are just ships that have different pods. They look the same class of ships to me, just modified for different mission profiles.

For there to be a Sutherland class ships in ST:Picard... I don't recall anything being said on-screen that was a Sutherland class ship nor anything about its registry.
Was there an interview with the show producers I missed?

Sure, upon closer inspection, the nacelle pylons look different (with some changes to the deflector dish), but why have it be a different class of ships for that?

To me, none of those really justify that being a new class of ships.

The Ross class: looks 90% like a Galaxy class only with minor differences.

It does... should have been a late 24th century/early 25th century Galaxy refit if you ask me.

Call me crazy, but SF doesn't need different classes of ships which were based off existing ones in the 24th century (that seems more fitting for the 23rd). If Ross is a design that improves upon the Galaxy class in general, then just call it a 25th century Galaxy class refit and use pre-existing Galaxy calss hulls to upgrade them.

Given the overall versatility of SF ships in the 24th century, having several variations of the same class by being separate classes of ships seems a bit... pointless?

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I don't think anyone's all that keen on the copy/paste fleet, but it's what happened, we can't unsee it, and spending time and money retconning it is just going to make other people unhappy.

Agreed. This isn't Star Wars...

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

It isn't.
Per STO Lore the Ross is a new design inspired by the Galaxy but using 2380s technology, but none of them are refits of existing Galaxy classes.

I stand corrected.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

Any STO backstory concerning these ships isn’t canon unless it’s mentioned on screen. Technically even the class names or ship names of the ships aren’t canon unless they’re mentioned on screen or in an official publication, or written on the ships’ hulls. Only the ship designs themselves are canon at this time.

The Picard production team has publicly said they were using the STO designs and mentioned class names in the same article.

 

[Deks]

The Picard production team has publicly said they were using the STO designs and mentioned class names in the same article.

So I hear... but just because they are using STO designs, it still doesn't mean they will have identical backstories or ship class designations in the live action itself.

We know the USS Titan made it from the novels into official canon via Lower Decks animated series for example (but nothing was mentioned on its backstory or how it compares to the novels - in the official canon, its possible/likely it had different missions/adventures)... and even though articles mention one thing, the actual live action may contain something else.

I guess it may depend on royalties and how well certain things FIT into on-screen canon, so various shows might end up using certain designs, but alter their class designation for the live action series.

For me, if there are 23rd century ships based off STO 25th century ones, then those should really be designated as same class of ships (just in the 25th century they would be upgraded to latest standards which would indicate all the visual changes)... but if the base layout is the same... I think its just a bit wasteful to call it a different class of ships... or they just should have stuck to the STO class designations for certain designs if they were used in the 23rd century.

STO isn't canon after all, so the official canon (aka live action series and now animated series) can pretty much take those designs and reclassify them for the prime universe... but in the case of the Nebula and Gagarin classes of ships... I just see no point in ST:Picard using different class of ships for the ones we saw in the fleet scene (after all, there was nothing mentioned on-screen on what classess of ships they are, so they could still be Nebula and Shepard class of ships, just upgraded with contemporary 25th century technology which would be indicative of any visual changes).

 

[Dukhat]

The Picard production team has publicly said they were using the STO designs and mentioned class names in the same article.

I made my statement before that information came out. So the class names Ross, Sutherland, Reliant and Gagarin are official, along with the names of each ship of that class shown in those official ship pics that were tweeted by the production personnel. But unless they’re planning on using more STO designs later in the series, those specific ships are the only ones from the game that are now canonized.

And @Deks is correct that while PIC can certainly use the ships’ names and class names for the show (or any other STO info about the ships), they are not beholden to do so. They could have used the Sutherland design but called it the Supernova class in the show and given it a completely different backstory than STO’s, and that’s what would be canon.

 

[UssGlenn]

The Ross class: looks 90% like a Galaxy class only with minor differences.

I don't think they share a single hull panel in common. The Saucer is round rather than oval, the pylons are swept back more, and the deflector dish is round, which changes the geometry of the secondary hull.

 

[Dukhat]

I don't think they share a single hull panel in common. The Saucer is round rather than oval, the pylons are swept back more, and the deflector dish is round, which changes the geometry of the secondary hull.

While that is all true, there are angles where, from a distance, it looks exactly like a Galaxy class ship. I personally would have chosen the Andromeda class rather than the Ross class, since it would have complemented the Sutherland class and wouldn’t have looked so much like a ship from a different class. But that’s me.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

I made my statement before that information came out. So the class names Ross, Sutherland, Reliant and Gagarin are official, along with the names of each ship of that class shown in those official ship pics that were tweeted by the production personnel. But unless they’re planning on using more STO designs later in the series, those specific ships are the only ones from the game that are now canonized.

And @Deks is correct that while PIC can certainly use the ships’ names and class names for the show (or any other STO info about the ships), they are not beholden to do so. They could have used the Sutherland design but called it the Supernova class in the show and given it a completely different backstory than STO’s, and that’s what would be canon.

Also Sagan-class for the new Stargazer.

 

[Dukhat]

The new Stargazer wasn’t a STO ship. It was designed specifically for the show.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

The new Stargazer wasn’t a STO ship. It was designed specifically for the show.

I was referring to the class name, in this case.
I just found a real gem, a complete list of ships in the fleet that confronted the new borg ship, straight from Doug Drexler's FB page. You can see details of all the classes, and even a good look at the new/refit Excelsior,

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...RL_jwY0Uc_mr51YgygA_C8ROx5xM3q1Hg&oe=62324BB1

 

[AaronMorse]

Looks like the Galaxy Class ships took a real beating... so we know of
USS Galaxy NCC-70637
USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D
USS Yamato NCC-71807
USS Challenger NCC-71099
USS Odyssey NCC-71832
USS Venture NCC-71854
USS Magellan NCC-71820 (conjecture)
USS Trinculo NCC-71867 (conjecture)
and figure we saw 8-10 in the Dominion War.
So somewhere along the way we lost the Enterprise, Yamato, Odyssey, Venture and Magellan plus maybe Hanson's Flagship. That's a large percentage lost.

 

[Crazyewok]

I don't think anyone's all that keen on the copy/paste fleet, but it's what happened, we can't unsee it, and spending time and money retconning it is just going to make other people unhappy.

Time and money to fix?



Give me access to the new CGI models and I could fix it a afternoon.....for free.