So, lets talk "Blade Runner" ....
- Thread starter Joel_Kirk
- Start date
The Voight-Kampff is administered twice during the movie. Leon fails almost immediately & Rachael almost passes it. The Voight-Kampff is, basically, a lie detector test for replicants. Leon fails because he knows he's lying, Rachael fails, eventually, because she suspects she is a replicant but isn't sure. Would a replicant, Deckard maybe, who didn't know or suspect he was a replicant, pass the test? Wouldn't a replicant who didn't know he was a replicant make a great blade runner because he thinks and acts the way they do but he thinks he's human so he thinks they deserve retirement? Hmmm.
Good job quoting the movie. I've seen it, too. The test is BASICALLY, a lie detector of sorts.
It's not a test to catch replicants lying about being replicants, and the questions don't make sense that way. Why would a person lie about swatting a wasp?
The test questions come from the book, where they were used to measure an empathetic response, mostly about animals since most animals are extinct and so carry a lot of emotional weight. The question with the bearskin rug is a trick: the replicant focuses on the nude, but the human response is shock about the bear who was skinned.
That's not a quote from the film though.
And I'd agree that broadly speaking the voight-kampff is a lie detector machine. It detects an untruth based on verbal reponses and biological reactions. But a voight-kampff is a specialized device, which separates it from being labelled as simply a lie-detector. All tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises.
That's not a quote from the film though.
And I'd agree that broadly speaking the voight-kampff is a lie detector machine. It detects an untruth based on verbal reponses and biological reactions. But a voight-kampff is a specialized device, which separates it from being labelled as simply a lie-detector. All tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises.
What a couple of pedants. I said "basically" twice because the V-K is, basically, a lie detector test.
Description from the original 1982 Blade Runner presskit:
"A very advanced form of lie detector that measures contractions of the iris muscle and the presence of invisible airborne particles emitted from the body. The bellows were designed for the latter function and give the machine the menacing air of a sinister insect. The VK is used primarily by Blade Runners to determine if a suspect is truly human by measuring the degree of his empathic response through carefully worded questions and statements."
From the movie: "Is this to be an empathy test? Capillary dilation of the so-called 'blush response', fluctuation of the pupil, involuntary dilation of the iris." (Tyrell)
"We call it Voight-Kampff for short." (Deckard)
happy?
Lie detector is an easy way to convey what the machine is like but its purpose isn't detecting lies but emotional responses. The Replicants don't have emotions in the book, as I recall. They can learn to act like they have them. We see an inference to that with Pris when she meets Sebastion. All happy and smiles till he turns away and the act disappears. The VK test is looking for those unconscious/autonomous reactions that can't be faked or acted.That's not a quote from the film though.
And I'd agree that broadly speaking the voight-kampff is a lie detector machine. It detects an untruth based on verbal reponses and biological reactions. But a voight-kampff is a specialized device, which separates it from being labelled as simply a lie-detector. All tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises.
What a couple of pedants. I said "basically" twice because the V-K is, basically, a lie detector test.
Description from the original 1982 Blade Runner presskit:
"A very advanced form of lie detector that measures contractions of the iris muscle and the presence of invisible airborne particles emitted from the body. The bellows were designed for the latter function and give the machine the menacing air of a sinister insect. The VK is used primarily by Blade Runners to determine if a suspect is truly human by measuring the degree of his empathic response through carefully worded questions and statements."
From the movie: "Is this to be an empathy test? Capillary dilation of the so-called 'blush response', fluctuation of the pupil, involuntary dilation of the iris." (Tyrell)
"We call it Voight-Kampff for short." (Deckard)
happy?
Much the same way a lie detector tests unconscious body actions (heartbeat, perspiration, etc.). Both tests are designed to uncover people hiding the truth.
Not really.
yes, really...look both up
No, the veracity of the responses is irrelevant to the VK test.
I don't understand what the deal is with the pedantry popular on this forum. I've noticed this again and again and its quite tiresome. Tell you what: don't take my word for it. Source after source describe the V-K as a type of polygraph machine. Even the people who designed the apparatus used in the film described their understanding of V-K as a type of polygraph.
"Syd Mead came up with the designs for the incredible Voight-Kampff machine. He had a discussion about it with Ridley and me and then came up with about three or four schemes. Finally we came down to a unit that opens up and has a breather and an oscillator and all sorts of gadgets. Basically it was lie-detector machine. The lie is, I am not a replicant."
-Lawrence G. Paull (Production Designer)
Too lazy to spell out voight kampff test.
My goodness, it's been a while since I've seen such pedantic nonsense.
OK, so let's get this straight: no, the VK isn't a "lie detector", but generally speaking it does operate on a similar principle. Specifically as a machine to measure autonomic response to external stimuli. The fact that they're measuring emotional empathy rather than untruth is besides the point in this context.
So yes, the VK is *basically* a lie detector. It does a different thing but in a very similar manner. Now of anyone feels the need to split that hair any thinner, go right ahead, but I hardly see the point.
OK, so let's get this straight: no, the VK isn't a "lie detector", but generally speaking it does operate on a similar principle. Specifically as a machine to measure autonomic response to external stimuli. The fact that they're measuring emotional empathy rather than untruth is besides the point in this context.
So yes, the VK is *basically* a lie detector. It does a different thing but in a very similar manner. Now of anyone feels the need to split that hair any thinner, go right ahead, but I hardly see the point.
And I said I agreed with you. Jeez Louise.
Leon couldn't pretend to give a shit about the turtle, so he shot the guy. That's what I thought.
I didn't think Rachel "almost" passed because of any doubts, just that her programed emotions were just not quite up to the level of human norms.
(Just saying this as my own opinion of what I saw, not wanting to sound like I'm correcting anybody, if anything is open to interpretation, Blade Runner certainly is.)
Of course, that takes us back to an important theme throught the whole movie, what is human norms. What if there is a retarded person taking the test, would they test as human or replicant? What if there was a sociopath, (a person without empathy, if I'm using the word correctly) taking it. Would they fail? I don't remember if it's stated in the movie, but the only firm way to tell was with a bone marrow sample, I read somewhere, so the Voight-Kampff test is not absolutely certain.
I didn't think Rachel "almost" passed because of any doubts, just that her programed emotions were just not quite up to the level of human norms.
(Just saying this as my own opinion of what I saw, not wanting to sound like I'm correcting anybody, if anything is open to interpretation, Blade Runner certainly is.)
Of course, that takes us back to an important theme throught the whole movie, what is human norms. What if there is a retarded person taking the test, would they test as human or replicant? What if there was a sociopath, (a person without empathy, if I'm using the word correctly) taking it. Would they fail? I don't remember if it's stated in the movie, but the only firm way to tell was with a bone marrow sample, I read somewhere, so the Voight-Kampff test is not absolutely certain.
The VK test is like a polygraph in the sense that it's measuring physical responses that are hard to consciously control. What it is pretty clearly not doing is catching the replicants lying, it's just not presented that way. If it were, it would be far easier to zero in with questions like "Are you a replicant?" Questions about calfskin wallets, turtles on their backs and butterfly collections don't make sense for ascertaining the subject's truthfulless, because there is noting at stake in telling the truth. If the filmmakers wanted to show that the test was to detect lies, they could have come up with questions that make it clear.
What is being measured is something different: emotional responses that humans have and replicants don't, but can simulate to a certain degree. Again, the test and questions come from DADOES and make sense in that context.
What is being measured is something different: emotional responses that humans have and replicants don't, but can simulate to a certain degree. Again, the test and questions come from DADOES and make sense in that context.
