Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Galactus, Aug 3, 2008.
Dude, what's with the freakin attitude? If I misread your original post, I apologize. Geez.
Agreed. While I definitely think some of these themes should have been explored a bit deeper, there's still a lot for Superman to deal with in this movie. And yeah, Lex's plan is a lot more than "just another real estate scheme" as people call it. Not only is it MUCH grander in scale, but it's a much more personal attack than we saw before; he's basically using Superman's own technology (and a piece of Krypton itself) to destroy the country this time.
Thor is meant to be the most powerful Marvel hero (Lee created him because the only thing he could think of more powerful than the Hulk would be a god); particularly in his current form, he could defeat Superman in the blink of an eye, since he's inherited the position of his father, Odin; even without that he'd have a shot. Particularly since Superman is vulnerable to magic.
Like I said I haven't read the new Thor, or much of comics lately but I thought Sentry was suppose to be the most powerful hero on Earth for Marvel now.
But just getting back to just Thor vs Superman. Are we talking about just fighting hand to hand? Which version of Superman are we talking? I don't think Asgardian powers are magic per se because Silver Surfer can duplicate them. I still don't get the whole vulnerable to magic thing. If the Hulk can clean Thor's clock I don't see why Superman couldn't as well.
Fighting with all their powers.
I was thinking of the modern version; baseline Thor would have a hard time beating the pre-Crisis one at his most ridiculous levels, but Odinforce Thor could do it.
He's a god; it's magic.
The Hulk can't clean Thor's clock, not when it's written properly.
"Dude," what is with YOUR 'freakin' attitude?
You misunderstood or misinterpreted something I said. I clarified it. I asked if you understood what my point was after I clarified.
That's central to what's called "discussion." It's OK to disagree, but it's not OK to misunderstand (and thus to disagree with something which isn't even what's being said in the first place).
I know that the internet is filled with people just aching to leap off the handle on these issues... looking to pick fights and flame and so forth. But that's not what this is about. I'm trying to have an actual civil conversation... which does NOT require people to just smile stupidly and agree with everything someone else says, but DOES require an honest effort to communicate clearly.
You didn't understand what I said. I clarified. And you seem to be upset that I clarified??? Sheesh...
Buffy and Angel never struck me as particularly trying to be realistic. Their worlds had a lot of the same forms as our world, but they just did that to play with them - to have nightclubs for demons and what not. Plus stylistically they were very self-conscious and spent a lot of time winking at the camera, which is drawing attention to the fact that they are fiction, and thus not realistic at all.
Wonder Woman is historical fantasy as well. LotR is all about a "mythical age", Wonder Woman operates as a kind of time warp - Greek mythology transported into a modern age. It seems to me what Jackson is talking about is committing to the fantasy. Committment, believing in the world you're creating, no matter how fantastic it is, creates a depth that allows for the audience to suspend their disbelief. I would say that Buffy and Angel committed to their worlds, all the way down to the self-conscious style. It's possible to commit to any fictional construct and achieve a sense of belief, even without it feeling like "the real world". Middle Earth felt like a real world, but not the real world.
So because Thor is a god, that automatically makes his power magic?
I can't think of a story where Thor has actually beat the Hulk in a fight, maybe I am getting old. I can think of at least one where the Hulk whipped Thor good. But then again they have Wolvie fighting the Hulk so go figure.
We definitely need to have a Superman vs thread one day.
That would be a fun topic, but I warn you that the Superman-Thor fight in the miniseries JLA/Avengers is still a sensitive subject for Thor fans. Mainly because their guy was KO'd.
Returning to the original topic, can another Superman film start filming in early 2009 and still make it onto the Summer 2010 schedule?
It's magic because it's always described as magic (what else would you call it?).
Iron Man has beaten the Hulk himself on occasion, so Thor can.
One example would be Jurgens' extended AU run, Thor conquered the world and killed the Hulk, along with a bunch of other guys (this, of course, was the current Odinforce version, ludicrously powerful (though not written as quite so ludicrously powerful as Odin was when he wielded it, since it's hard enough to write stories for Thor at his current level))..
In general, writing requirements affect the outcome; since whenever the Avengers fight the Hulk, Thor can't win all by himself or the rest of the group looks worthless.
Busiek's thoughts on Thor earned him no friends among Thor's fans.
Then the ball needs to get rolling. I don't see another Superman film making it to 2010 with Bryan Singer as director; he is knee-deep in post-production on Valkryie, and still re-shooting some scenes or having recently shot them.
The film isn't due until 2009 and I don't think Singer will want to primarily focus his efforts on another project like Superman until he is done with his current one.
2011 might be feasible.
I don't think 2010 is looking likely either. And Warners will presumably want to get the next Nolan/Bale Batman film out in the summer of 2011, and I don't see them releasing a Superman film in the same year (unless they gave it a Christmas release - although I don't think they'd do so). If Superman slips back to 2012 then I think they'll go with a new cast and director and start from scratch.
I can see Nolan waiting another year to do the next Batman, if he decides to do one. I don't know why, but I can see him waiting to either do more projects or just wait until the right story hits him.
Yeah I definitely think Nolan has earned the right now to make the next Batman in his own time and on his own terms. And considering how hard a followup to TDK will be, he'll probably NEED all that time.
Agreed. I'd rather have NO movie than have a poorly-conceived, poorly-executed one which is rushed out just because some MBA-types want to cash in...
If the guy making the film has a story he wants to tell... not just a "universe he wants to play in" but a real STORY... which would be compelling regardless of whether or not that was presented within that universe... that's when I want another movie. When the storytellers are excited about doing their job. That's when I want another one... and not before. If Nolan is burnt out on this stuff (not saying he is, but IF he is) then I don't want him to do another one (even though he's done an amazing job thus far!).
No movie is better than a bad movie... IMHO.
Agreed. Does anyone think that the Superman series is any better because of The Quest for Peace or that the Batman series is any the richer for Batman & Robin (etc, etc).
I've been thinking that is what is needed for the unlikely 2010 film that many kept insisting was going to happen. By a 2012 release date you'd think they would restart ala Hulk.
And on the other side of the dual coin I think its justifiable to allow a solid 3-4 years between the next, hopefully Nolan helmed, Batman film. It gives this one ample time to be absorbed on DVD while also being recent enough still to have the fanbase(general and rabid) eager for the follow-up.
Not so convinced anyone other than the rabid Supes fanbase wants a Returns themed sequel so soon.
Didn't Nolan make The Prestige before he started casting and production on The Dark Knight anyways? I'm sure that he would want at least a year break before going back at it.
No, actually, the most powerful hero on Earth, (and just about the entire universe) is Squirrel Girl.
Yes, he made The Prestige between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Another three-year break between Batman films should be sufficient for him to recharge, maybe make another non-Batman film in the meantime, and then deliver the next sequel. All things being equal, summer 2011 is highly likely to see next, and likely final, Nolan Batman film.
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