So glad Rick Berman never listened to the "fans"...

[propita]

And Berman didn't want a "TNG Lite" either, a lot of what people DON'T like about VOY was forced on them by the network.

I agree with this. The Klingons in DS9, the TNG style in Voyager, and the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise were all mainly studio decisions. (Not UPN in the case of DS9, but still the higher-ups... you know what I mean.)

...

I believe Berman and Braga intended Year Of Hell to be a literal year, lasting an entire season, with lasting repercussions. That would have been awesome. I think the Xindi arc in Enterprise was done very well and I think a Year Of Hell arc in Voyager could have been just as good or better. Show the consequences of running out of torpedoes, shuttles, and energy. Show the crew at their wits end. Kill off a few major characters.

...

I agree with much of the entire post but only wish to comment on this part.

I'm trying to imagine a "Year of Hell"--what would it be? The week's episode and then Annorax literally hits a reset button? Every week? Almost every week?

Voyager is "immune" to it but relives that time week after week but, what, meeting different aliens each week because last week's aliens were wiped out by Annorax's actions at the end of the last episode?

A weekly--or near-weekly--reset button is fine for an episode with a time loop or "Groundhog Day," but wouldn't that just be too much for an entire season? And to have Annorax slip through their fingers week after week just...well it's not likely to be as compelling as searching for the one-armed man. It'd seem too frustrating or incompetent.

I loved so many things about Voyager and was pissed about so many things. I think that's how most people here are. They like so much but got so frustrated because a number of improvements would've made it unquestionably outstanding with just minor exceptions.

 

[TheGodBen]

The time travel element to Year of Hell was added later, it wasn't part of the original pitch as far as I know. Braga's idea was a straight-up Year of Hell; Voyager enters a region of space controlled by the Krenim, the ship gets badly damaged as the season goes on, then in season 5 they get past Krenim space and focus on repairing the ship. Braga proposed the idea to the network, but they turned it down.

Braga still liked the idea so he and Menosky retooled it with the time travel plot so that the year could take place in 2 episodes and then be reset like it never happened. It was intended as the season 3 finale, but then Braga had a brainstorm and proposed the idea of bringing the Borg back and having a former Borg be a main character. Everyone liked that idea so Braga and Menosky threw Scorpion Part 1 together very quickly.

In season 4 Braga and Menosky took their script for Year of Hell out of mothballs, re-jiggered it so that Kes was replaced with Seven, and used it as a mid-season two-parter.

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Dang, they threw Scorpion, Part One together on the fly?

Since, IMO, that's one of the best episodes of Trek, I got to give credit where it's due. They actually did something right there. Bravo!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Think about what you're saying.

It's not they do better when they have less time, it's they do better when they don't have time to do everything they think they're supposed to.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Braga's idea was a straight-up Year of Hell; Voyager enters a region of space controlled by the Krenim, the ship gets badly damaged as the season goes on, then in season 5 they get past Krenim space and focus on repairing the ship.

Sounds like Season 3 of Enterprise.

 

[TheGodBen]

Year of Hell is probably where Braga had the idea for the Xindi arc. Of course, they had to throw in the Xindi and the Death Spheres in order to have an excuse for Enterprise to spend a whole season in dangerous space but many of the core concepts are the same.

I really like the Xindi arc, but if I could have had the Year of Hell instead that's what I would have chosen. The Xindi arc had some great stories and it was my favourite season of Enterprise, but at the end of the day it wasn't what Enterprise was supposed to be about and it felt weird to have a story like that in a prequel show. The Year of Hell would have fit in perfectly with Voyager's premise and wouldn't have felt so contrived (if done well). It's possibly the biggest lost opportunity for Trek, only matched by Enterprise squandering its first two seasons on alien-of-the-week stories.

 

[Anwar]

Think about what you're saying.

It's not they do better when they have less time, it's they do better when they don't have time to do everything they think they're supposed to.

It's just like "All Good Things", they made that in a rush as well and Braga even told Moore that it was better than Generations which they longer on.

 

[StarryEyed]

The creator of Babylon 5 once said that the best episodes practically wrote themselves. The stinkers on the other hand, took forever to write.

Funny how that works.

Braga must have spent a year on Threshold.

 

[InklingStar]

Think about what you're saying.

It's not they do better when they have less time, it's they do better when they don't have time to do everything they think they're supposed to.

It's just like "All Good Things", they made that in a rush as well and Braga even told Moore that it was better than Generations which they longer on.

When the producers decided to expand DS9's "Improbable Cause" to a two parter, Ron Moore wrote "The Die is Cast" in record time. Excellent episode.

"Before And After" was a neat setup to what could have been an awesome season. I'm sure like the Xindi arc there would have been the occasional poor outing but overall it would have been something Star Trek had never done before. Ah, well.

 

[John200]

Well when your writing you are doomed to failure if you second guess yourself.

So you tune out ,and focus.

They realize they can't please us all ,because we are a fickle bunch.

Contrary to popular belief creating shows ,and movies aint easy.

 

[Saquist]

Star Trek Voyager has got to be one of the most underrated television series of all time. It's perhaps most remarkable that its most vocal haters have been Star Trek fans... During 1995-2001, there was sooooooo much critisism and hatred towards the show, and I'm sure people like Berman, Braga or Taylor must have been aware of that. They must have heard it, but I'm just really glad they never listened to it.

For instance, one of the things these "fans" were crying for was MORE CONFLICT between Starfleet and Maquis crewmembers. Endless whining about how Voyager's crew so quickly became 'one happy family', etc., etc.... But after seeing BSG and some episodes of SG-U, I wonder: what does MORE CONFLICT really add to the enjoyment of a series..? Don't get me wrong, I think BSG is one of the very best series ever made, but I prefer to watch ST. Why? I guess it just comes down to a basic feeling: ST makes me feel good. I think it's exactly this 'one happy family' feeling that I like so much. And I think it sticks really close to what Gene was trying to make. This may sound a little silly, but I fantasize sometimes about being on the starship Voyager... Okay, this may suggest I'm some über-nerd, but it illustrates something: I would NEVER EVER fantasize being on Galactica or Destiny.... I think ST generated a very unique, positive feeling, that no other series can accomplish. Where legions of "fans" opted for a dark approach (perhaps because B5 was running at about the same time), I think it was very wise of Berman to not give in to these kind of 'demands'. 'Cause it would just have tainted that unique feeling I was describing.

I think Star Trek Voyager achieves something on a very special level. Perhaps it lacks the hard hitting character drama seen on BSG... Perhaps it lacks the structure of a cool epic story like B5.... But in the end, it's what I love to watch most. And I think that outweighs any critisism I've ever heard....

So thanks to Rick Berman for producing a great series. I'm not afraid to say it, even though this will all undoubtly be bashed by the "real fans"...............

None of that Matters...when non Trek Fans think of Star Trek they think of Star Trek Voyager and they liked it. It was fun...amazingly clean and family oriented. I hate to say it but Voyager helped DS9 get through it's final seasons.

 

[DevilEyes]

They probably also took the feed back they were getting from DS9 and how many were finding the inner conflict between Starfleet/Bajorian/Maquis/Cardassian becoming played out & dull...

How many?

None of that Matters...when non Trek Fans think of Star Trek they think of Star Trek Voyager and they liked it. It was fun...amazingly clean and family oriented. I hate to say it but Voyager helped DS9 get through it's final seasons.

Really? I've never met a single non-Trek or casual Trek fan who thinks of VOY when they think of Star Trek. They usually don't even know what Voyager is. Every non-Trek fan I've ever spoken to thinks of TNG and/or TOS (or TOS movies) when they think of Star Trek.

And I don't know anyone who wants the shows to be "clean" and "family oriented" or considers that a plus, apart from my extremely religious 80-year old aunt, but she's not interested in SF...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well I once saw a broad cross-section of regular people enjoying a viewing of Endgame on the Simpsons a few years ago after they accidentally destroyed their family photo album and they had to replicate and reshoot all the redletter events from their life together, and these Simpsons and their assembled friends and family all seemed perfectly normal albeit in costume.

 

[exodus]

Really? I've never met a single non-Trek or casual Trek fan who thinks of VOY when they think of Star Trek. They usually don't even know what Voyager is. Every non-Trek fan I've ever spoken to thinks of TNG and/or TOS (or TOS movies) when they think of Star Trek.

And I don't know anyone who wants the shows to be "clean" and "family oriented" or considers that a plus, apart from my extremely religious 80-year old aunt, but she's not interested in SF...

I can name at least 5 or 6 people off the top of my head that were introduced to Trek due to Voyager.
Tons of men world wide know of Seven of Nine and are aware she's from Star Trek whether they watched the show or not.
She was so popular, her image has appeared on "the Simpsons" more than once.
The Simpson did an a whole ep. about Marge being a Voyager fan.
I find that cements that Voyager is well known in pop culture & the casual viewing audience.


Half the folks on this board have familiers w/ children and expect Trek to be clean & family oriented as it's always been. That is why so many were disgusted by graphic sexuality of ENT. and turned it off.

 

[Saquist]

The time travel element to Year of Hell was added later, it wasn't part of the original pitch as far as I know. Braga's idea was a straight-up Year of Hell; Voyager enters a region of space controlled by the Krenim, the ship gets badly damaged as the season goes on, then in season 5 they get past Krenim space and focus on repairing the ship. Braga proposed the idea to the network, but they turned it down.

Braga still liked the idea so he and Menosky retooled it with the time travel plot so that the year could take place in 2 episodes and then be reset like it never happened. It was intended as the season 3 finale, but then Braga had a brainstorm and proposed the idea of bringing the Borg back and having a former Borg be a main character. Everyone liked that idea so Braga and Menosky threw Scorpion Part 1 together very quickly.

In season 4 Braga and Menosky took their script for Year of Hell out of mothballs, re-jiggered it so that Kes was replaced with Seven, and used it as a mid-season two-parter.

Scorpion seem like it was tampered with allot especially the Kes parts.

 

[Trek_princess]

They probably also took the feed back they were getting from DS9 and how many were finding the inner conflict between Starfleet/Bajorian/Maquis/Cardassian becoming played out & dull...

How many?

None of that Matters...when non Trek Fans think of Star Trek they think of Star Trek Voyager and they liked it. It was fun...amazingly clean and family oriented. I hate to say it but Voyager helped DS9 get through it's final seasons.

Really? I've never met a single non-Trek or casual Trek fan who thinks of VOY when they think of Star Trek. They usually don't even know what Voyager is. Every non-Trek fan I've ever spoken to thinks of TNG and/or TOS (or TOS movies) when they think of Star Trek.

And I don't know anyone who wants the shows to be "clean" and "family oriented" or considers that a plus, apart from my extremely religious 80-year old aunt, but she's not interested in SF...

I was never interested in Trek until a year ago, after I saw the new film. Before I started actively investing time in the franchise, I'd never heard of Voyager. I think the first time I found out about it was from www.startrek.com. When I thought of Star Trek before I was a Trek fan, I thought of a) the phrase "Beam me up Scotty" b) that Star Trek hand thing (the Vulcan salute) c) William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy and d) various characters from TNG, especially the weird looking ones like Data and Worf.

 

[Deks]

There was little to no point in Maquis having a mutiny against their SF fellow officers on board Voyager.
Conflict was also not that big of a deal, since all Maquis were in fact former Federation citizens and/or SF officers to begin with.

Cardassians were tens of thousands of ly's away as were most of their worries.
There was some initial conflict between Torres and Carey for example, but once those two tried working together, those who worked under them would do the same since higher ranking officers often end up being looked up to.

The thought of putting Trek into 'family oriented' genre is not appealing to me.
It certainly has various episodes that don't fit into it.
Furthermore, I think people also have to keep in mind there was a limit to how far the producers could have gone.
Trek (and virtually every other SF show out there, not to mention shows that were not scifi) predominantly suffered from limitations the producers/writers were constricted with.

 

[Anwar]

Exactly, if they wanted REAL conflict they should've made the other crew be Romulans. Those guys have been the Federation's enemies the longest out of ANY Trek bad guys. Plus they were overdue for an in-depth analysis of their people.

 

[I am not Spock]

^Maybe the Vetar should have been transported over to the DQ as well. The Maquis and the Cardies would be trying to tear each other apart. Janeway would have had to keep them on seperate decks!