SNW truly respects TOS continuity!

[cooleddie74]

Almost nothing in Trek makes sense. That's why it's fun.

That's why there are Star Trek conventions and people don't camp outside Neil deGrasse Tyson's home wanting him to read to them.

 

[Tuskin38]

They speak a language we've never heard.

They're speaking the Klingon language as it was created for the TOS movies by Marc Okrand.

They didn't change it, they were even coached by someone fluent in the language.

Or even if Picard gives Romulans cranial ridges and different hair styles, that's fine too.

The Romulan ridges first appeared in TNG, not Picard.

and the way they act is completely different.

They don't really act that much different from TNG/DS9 Klingons.

 

[Yistaan]

camp outside Neil deGrasse Tyson's home wanting him to read to them.

I wouldn't recommend anyone camp outside his home after what I heard he was accused of. Albeit he was allowed to keep his job after an investigation but there are tons of other astrophysicsts who don't have those accusations that we can talk to instead.

 

[shapeshifter]

Sometimes I feel like 95% of the discussion on this forum regarding Star Trek is just anal -obsessive fans screeching about canon.

For me, it's the repetition that wears me down.

Newbies with honest questions and willing to listen are ok, but haters or those groomed to hate from YT videos are a different story.

No sooner than months of explaining fixes one of them when the hater youtube pipeline farts out another one in our direction and it starts all over again, and again...

 

[Weyoun 251]

While I agree the canon gripes can be grating, I'm not sure the people complaining about the canon gripers are much better. Mainly because they don't realize how good they have it here. Over at that other star franchise, there is also massive "canon has broken!" proclamations every week despite a much greater attention to visual continuity than Trek has, complete with set recreations and deepfakes. This is the same franchise that turned what was supposed to be the Tantive IV into the Tantive III in Revenge of the Sith over complaints on cosmetic ship differences that are literally a thousand times more minor than the cosmetic ship differences between TOS Enterprise and SNW Enterprise.

I personally can't tell Tantive III and Tantive IV apart, interior or exterior, while I very much can tell SNW and TOS Enterprises apart, especially the interior.

Very good post, and to be fair I agree with your points for the most part.

What ILM managed with Star Wars was truly unprecedented and looks nearly timeless - this has made it such that maintaining the looks is not just easier but it is desirable because it looks as good on modern screens and it did in 1977.

I would similarly say that TMP has a similar visual style that, had it been the original, would have never been changed more than, maybe, some hull detailing.

The problem as I see it is that on a timeline basis it must have certain features of the 66 Ent but to replicate it identically would just not pass on a modern screen.

So we have this halfway house with the nacelle shapes right but the angle slightly off and so on which means that people are unhappy.

 

[fireproof78]

So if the Star Trek movies along with TNG change the way Klingons look, that's fine. They nailed the rest of it. Or even if Picard gives Romulans cranial ridges and different hair styles, that's fine too. It's not too far off and it makes sense. But if in the first show you show us Klingons that look nothing like what we've previously seen. They speak a language we've never heard. Their customs for the dead have changed and the interior of their ship and the way they act is completely different. And a large majority of the show is focused on them... well... then there's an issue.

This is the question I will always return to: why are cultures on Earth allowed to be diverse but alien worlds are not?

 

[Weyoun 251]

This is the question I will always return to: why are cultures on Earth allowed to be diverse but alien worlds are not?

I loved the comment from Laris about "Northerners" which was meant to differentiate ridged from smooth Romulans - apologies if it was "Southerners" but the crux of my post stays the same

 

[Nerys Myk]

I got caught up in explaining the Klingons once, way back in the Eighties. Used the geography angle and had each type coming from a different region. Of course back then they're weren't as many variations.

 

[yotsuya]

Ironic statement of the day?

hey, i'm not saying to dump Discovery (as much as I detest season 1 and find season 2 impossible to get interested in), I'm saying it is a great reboot idea or parallel universe. I don't think it can fit with the rest of Trek that came before. I think there is an inherent incompatibility in trying to force them into the same universe. I think this was mandated by CBS (and I think the Discovery Season 1 team was really gungho into the idea - like how they changed Eaves design of the Enterprise).

In my early days of fandom a very large swath of fans rejected TNG outright without ever watching it. I think some came around over time. I have never totally rejected any Star Trek, though I have booted a few out of the main canon (TAS and Discovery in particular).

 

[Nerys Myk]

hey, i'm not saying to dump Discovery (as much as I detest season 1 and find season 2 impossible to get interested in), I'm saying it is a great reboot idea or parallel universe. I don't think it can fit with the rest of Trek that came before. I think there is an inherent incompatibility in trying to force them into the same universe. I think this was mandated by CBS (and I think the Discovery Season 1 team was really gungho into the idea - like how they changed Eaves design of the Enterprise).

I have booted a few out of the main canon (TAS and Discovery in particular).

That's above your paygrade.

 

[The Wormhole]

the very consistent Berman years where the Okuda's were able to keep outlying incidents to a miniumum.

 

[yotsuya]

There's no "universe."

They're all Star Trek-branded productions of Desilu/Paramount/Viacom/CBS/Paramount+/Whatever, the people who own the property.

The only ones that take place in a separate continuity are those that are explicitly stated by the owners as taking place in a separate continuity.

Well, that all depends on how important you think various things are. Imagine how confused the Thermians would be at what Discovery did. There are some of us for whom the visual are as much a part of canon as the dialog. So redesigning the TOS Enterprise automatically boots it out of the main canon and a parallel universe is the only explanation.

As I pointed out before, there is a long history of fans establishing what their canon is that includes or excludes things. As far as I'm concerned, the only productions since Enterprise that are part of the main continuity/canon/timeline are Picard and Below Decks. I haven't decided about Prodigy yet.

And the subject of canon goes back to book series. The original canon are the stories created by the original author. If another author picks up and continues, they may have a lot of fans, but canon? That is up to the fans. I can think of several authors whose series have been continued after their passing and I would not consider those continuations, however authorized by the author's estate, to be part of the canon. The same with Star Trek. While they were Paramount (1966-2005) there was a solid continuity that grew. When CBS got involved that went out the window.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, that all depends on how important you think various things are. Imagine how confused the Thermians would be at what Discovery did. There are some of us for whom the visual are as much a part of canon as the dialog. So redesigning the TOS Enterprise automatically boots it out of the main canon and a parallel universe is the only explanation.

As I pointed out before, there is a long history of fans establishing what their canon is that includes or excludes things. As far as I'm concerned, the only productions since Enterprise that are part of the main continuity/canon/timeline are Picard and Below Decks. I haven't decided about Prodigy yet.

And the subject of canon goes back to book series. The original canon are the stories created by the original author. If another author picks up and continues, they may have a lot of fans, but canon? That is up to the fans. I can think of several authors whose series have been continued after their passing and I would not consider those continuations, however authorized by the author's estate, to be part of the canon. The same with Star Trek. While they were Paramount (1966-2005) there was a solid continuity that grew. When CBS got involved that went out the window.

That's not how it works. All you're talking about is "stuff I like".

 

[fireproof78]

That's not how it works. All you're talking about is "stuff I like".

Canon sounds more official.

 

[Mudd]

Well, that all depends on how important you think various things are.

No, it doesn't.

It's the way these things actually work.

You'd clearly rather it worked differently, so you just insist that it does.

 

[cooleddie74]

Those of us with broader minds than that were spoiled by the very consistent Berman years where the Okuda's were able to keep outlying incidents to a miniumum.

Like that incident where DS9 said the Eugenics Wars happened in the 2170s.

Yeah. Minimal.

 

[yotsuya]

Like that incident where DS9 said the Eugenics Wars happened in the 2170s.

Yeah. Minimal.

That's pretty minor.

 

[Donald G]

That's pretty minor.

What's 180 or so years between friends?

 

[AresB]

Like that incident where DS9 said the Eugenics Wars happened in the 2170s.

Well, it's Eugenics Wars, plural. The first war with the Augments may be the subdued one in the 90's, the last 200 years later, and a number of battles in between.

Always in motion is the canon, and all of it is true from a certain point of view.

 

[Mudd]

The Eugenics War takes place in our future, now. Pike said so on SNW.