Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

[Ithekro]

Well do remember that nearly all the Star Trek mentioned was from the 20th century. There was a sliver of Voyager in the 21st and all of Enterprise, but Enterprise is not in the "enlightened" Federation, but the more flawed post WWIII human 22nd century. And it only lasted 4 years.

The only other possible recourse is the new film, of which there are two, and aside from focus on Kirk and Spock, there hasn't been all that much time to devote to characters that don't have more or less established characteristics from their 20th century versions.

 

[T'Girl]

"its a family show waaaah"

Joan of Arcadia, a very Christian family drama, had the character of Grace who was obviously attracted to Joan.

If a Christian show can deal with a gay character, why not Star Trek?

 

[Jedi_Master]

How about we get a grown up star trek

At this point I would take almost ANY Star Trek, even if it was based on the adventures of the U.S.S. Duggar.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Its the twenty first century, and this is a show about the future. Where are all the gays? Do the conservatives believe medicine eradicated homosexuality? Is that what star trek is saying?

All thats really happening, is a mob mentality is being allowed to trump freedom of association, and accurate representation on television.

Obviously, Trek's weakness was that it on network broadcast TV and had to answer to sponsors and conservative fans. It got great ratings, but it had to bend to worried studio heads and certain fans.

Star trek lost viewing figures?

You know why? No one wants to watch a "boring and safe" show on space. When it started it was revolutionary, not boring.

Maybe that's why TV shows are changing--much more risque, daring. I doubt a show with the Trek formulas of TNG and early 90's would as much a hit now.

A character can't easily techno babble a way out a problem now.

Some cable shows are 'in your face' from the start and don't worry about upsetting some fans.

How about we get a grown up star trek and not one aimed at prudes and gender tyrants.

Game of thrones has cursing, nudity, and violence. It featured a gay relationship with a love scene. Its ratings get higher every season. ( But honestly, some of their scenes are outright nuts or gross though)

Trek has a catch-all saving grace-- since humans have no prejudices in the 24th century, then homosexuality is no longer an issue.

Therefore you can't accuse the Trek universe of avoiding homosexuality, because ----it's not an issue to begin with.

You just happened to have never seen a gay character or couple on there before.

 

[borgboy]

Not seeing a real positive gay character in hundreds of hours of movies and television is definitely avoiding homosexuality.

 

[Maurice]

What makes you think that person is a "she?" Just a young man trying something different.

Both Spock and Sulu used blue eye shadow at one point.

Then "trying something different" includes trying breasts.

Here's the actress (link).

 

[mendelin]

I wonder, how many of people in this thread (who wants to see LGBT-character in Star Trek) are gays?

People, please, be honest. Is there at least one LGBT - person, who is interested in this thing?

I suppose, that many of LGBT-people are indifferent to this issue. They live with their life.

Most activists are heterosexual people (mostly girls and sometimes young boys), who wants to see some exotic relationships, because it's funnier than common one.

 

[T'Girl]

... medicine eradicated homosexuality? Is that what star trek is saying?

The idea does get floated here.

Trek has a catch-all saving grace-- since humans have no prejudices in the 24th century ...

Watch Picard in The Neutral Zone again, he was prejudice against the people from the 20th century before they even woke for the first time.

Therefore you can't accuse the Trek universe of avoiding homosexuality ...

Yes I can, and I do.

because ----it's not an issue to begin with.

It very obviously is

You just happened to have never seen a gay character or couple on there before.

Because the show was written that way, it's not a case of "just happen." As written, the Federation, Starfleet, Earth, etc. contained no gays, no bi's, no trans, at all. Zero.

The Star Trek universe is deliberately structured with only heterosexuals.

 

[borgboy]

I'm gay, and pretty outspoken about it. I've known lots of LGBT people who were also Trek fans who wanted to see LGBT representation. Media representation is pretty important to most LGBT people, although obviously that's just one issue of many that people care about.

It's great that there are straight allies who support representation. The numbers of how many straight/not-straight people in the issue doesn't seem important to me. I don't think most straight people that support diversity and representation see it as "funnier". That's a really odd thing to say, I don't get that at all. Sexier, maybe, but many people genuinely care about fairness in media visability. I'm a white man and I'm also passionate about seeing strong females and people of color in the media. It's ok to support minority groups you aren't a part of.

I don't really get the point. I am "living my life". I can be a gay Trekkie who cares about diversity and representation and still have a life. The tone of that comment seems to suggest suggest that LGBT people who care about gays in Trek don't have a life. Unlike those cool LGBT people who are indifferent to the issue.

 

[mendelin]

borgboy, thank you for your post!

Media representation is pretty important to most LGBT people, although obviously that's just one issue of many that people care about.

Totally agree with you. And, I think, this representation should be done properly. Would you agree? Many straight people have no idea, what is it "to be gay". They need explanation. It's not enough just insert a character and give him words "Hi, I'm gay" (like in Warehouse 13). So, I think, it's quite complex thing. Unfortunately, many of shows/movies with LGBT-character can't properly represent this character. Star Trek always had problems with love-stories, there is a big chance, that it will have problems with this issue too.

I don't think most straight people that support diversity and representation see it as "funnier". That's a really odd thing to say, I don't get that at all. Sexier, maybe...

Well, maybe "funnier" is a wrong word. There are plenty of stories about traditional relationship. It becomes boring, I suppose. Yes, sexier and exotic.

I don't really get the point. I am "living my life". I can be a gay Trekkie who cares about diversity and representation and still have a life. The tone of that comment seems to suggest suggest that LGBT people who care about gays in Trek don't have a life. Unlike those cool LGBT people who are indifferent to the issue.

The point:
I supposed, that most people, who want LGBT-character in ST, are straight young excited girls and boys with big interest to exotic issues.
And most of LGBT ST fans allow themselves be more calm towards this issue.

 

[T'Girl]

Just a young man trying something different.

Then "trying something different" includes trying breasts.

I'm transsexual Maurice, there are pharmaceuticals that will cause breasts to grow, there are also breast forms. Depends if you want temporary boobies or permanent.

Yes the actress was female, but what about the character?

In the first pilot The Cage, the Keeper was male, but was depicted by a actress.

 

[junkdata]

I wonder, how many of people in this thread (who wants to see LGBT-character in Star Trek) are gays?

People, please, be honest. Is there at least one LGBT - person, who is interested in this thing?

I suppose, that many of LGBT-people are indifferent to this issue. They live with their life.

Most activists are heterosexual people (mostly girls and sometimes young boys), who wants to see some exotic relationships, because it's funnier than common one.

I think the gay people will admit it.

I personally just want to see some realism. The whole things seems silly.

Just a young man trying something different.

Then "trying something different" includes trying breasts.

I'm transsexual Maurice, there are pharmaceuticals that will cause breasts to grow, there are also breast forms. Depends if you want temporary boobies or permanent.

Yes the actress was female, but what about the character?

In the first pilot The Cage, the Keeper was male, but was depicted by a actress.

Whats the giveaways, so I know?

Hands? the groin join? lack of lubrication? adams apple? Shoulder width?

Equip me with your knowledge.

 

[Melakon]

Most activists are heterosexual people (mostly girls and sometimes young boys), who wants to see some exotic relationships, because it's funnier than common one.

I'd like to see the statistics you used to make this statement.

 

[borgboy]

I'd imagine if McCoy can help an elderly sick woman grow a new kidney in minutes with a pill, some pretty amazing and wonderful procedures would be available in the 23rd century for trans people to transition. So, hypothetically at least, there shouldn't be any way to look at someone in ST and know if they are living in the gender they were born in biologically.

There are more straight people than gay people, so possibly there are more straight people that want to see LGBT diversity in Trek - the greater numbers of straight people do make that a possibility. That doesn't mean that there aren't gay people who want the same thing (there are). I don't see what difference it makes what percents the sexual orientations are for that group of people is, or what their ages are. It's generally accepted that there's less homophobia among younger people, so that may be the case. And I appreciate every one of them. Thank you, straight allies.

I feel like the case is being made that LGBT people don't really care about gays in Trek and the campaign for that is being presented as being made up of slash happy "fan girls", and that this is supposed to be a bad thing. I love slash, love slash fans, and I don't agree that this is true or would be bad if it were true. I am gay and I am far from calm on the issue of gays in Trek, and I know there are many other LGBT Trekkie on the boards who do care, and many other fans that aren't active in fandom who care.

I don't want to be presented as being invisible in the social issues of my fandom. I'm part of this.

 

[junkdata]

I'd imagine if McCoy can help an elderly sick woman grow a new kidney in minutes with a pill, some pretty amazing and wonderful procedures would be available in the 23rd century for trans people to transition. So, hypothetically at least, there shouldn't be any way to look at someone in ST and know if they are living in the gender they were born in biologically.

There are more straight people than gay people, so possibly there are more straight people that want to see LGBT diversity in Trek - the greater numbers of straight people do make that a possibility. That doesn't mean that there aren't gay people who want the same thing (there are). I don't see what difference it makes what percents the sexual orientations are for that group of people is, or what their ages are. It's generally accepted that there's less homophobia among younger people, so that may be the case. And I appreciate every one of them. Thank you, straight allies.

I feel like the case is being made that LGBT people don't really care about gays in Trek and the campaign for that is being presented as being made up of slash happy "fan girls", and that this is supposed to be a bad thing. I love slash, love slash fans, and I don't agree that this is true or would be bad if it were true. I am gay and I am far from calm on the issue of gays in Trek, and I know there are many other LGBT Trekkie on the boards who do care, and many other fans that aren't active in fandom who care.

I don't want to be presented as being invisible in the social issues of my fandom. I'm part of this.

I dont really care about gay people as a distinct group, and frankly, I find the whole gay thing kind of irksome.

Thats why Im not gay.

I do believe in human rights tho, and freedom of association, and frankly that doesn't mean I have to watch gay films and go to gay clubs. The bottom line for me, is its a false representation and a political act NOT to include gay people in a show that is ostensibly liberal and realistic in its depiction of relationships and human interactions, and inclusive of the cream of the planet, in its space fleet.

Its basically DADT in space as it stood, and thats frankly ridiculous. Im pretty sure a lot of other shows have had gay characters.

Gay people are a significant percentage of the population.

Do I like watching Omar kiss his BF in the wire? Nope. Its a bit sickly to be honest.

The fact is, he is a realistic character, and therefore he might well be gay. When he is going around doing his thing, everyone cheers for him, but you have to accept that the dude is gay. Its an intrinsic part of his character. He isnt shown to have a "gay personality" in stereotype. But its presented as unequivocally his sexual persuasion and thats part of the character.

Of course some people will want to humanise homosexuality on television. That's political goal, and one that speaks to the political struggles, oppression and marginalisation that gay people as a specific group have faced. But even if you look at it from the other angle, what are we watching, when its meant to be humanity, and it hasnt been in any way homosexualised?

As a straight guy, who just wants to watch a credible show, its ridiculous.

 

[Maurice]

Just a young man trying something different.

Then "trying something different" includes trying breasts.

I'm transsexual Maurice, there are pharmaceuticals that will cause breasts to grow, there are also breast forms. Depends if you want temporary boobies or permanent.

Yes the actress was female, but what about the character?

In the first pilot The Cage, the Keeper was male, but was depicted by a actress.

I'm well aware of this. I have trans friends. All I said was, "Then "trying something different" includes trying breasts. " not just makeup, which is what you mentioned.

And the Keeper doesn't really count as an example, as that was a deliberate production decision to make them seem more alien by casting smallish women to make them seem frail but giving them masculine voices (same as for the Binars). For all we know, the Talosians have one sex or six.

 

[borgboy]

For what it's worth, the novel Burning Dreams describes the Talosians as being hermaphrodites. Excellent novel too, all about Pike.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It is a pretty sad statement about our current culture that it's impossible to have a gay character who just has relationships the same way the straight characters do without it being interpreted as a political statement.

In my observation the whole 'gay politics' is an invention of the opposing side. What anti-gay advocates see as 'A political agenda to change our culture by force', actual gay people see as 'Living their lives the way they choose to'.

I tend to think that Star Trek's omission of homosexual characters wasn't an intentional snub so much as something that the writers didn't think about because they were in the habit of writing heterosexual relationships, and possibly a little bit to avoid the accusation of doing it for political reasons. Though it would have been nice if they did include gay characters.

 

[borgboy]

There are plenty of examples of Trek writers toying with LGBT themes, like the Outcast, Dax's ex wife, etc. So I don't believe for a minute that the writers forgot to include a gay character ever as an oversight. I can understand why it wasn't done in decades past, as the political climate made it very risky to include gays in past decades, but it was gutless to not have included a gay character in Enterprise, and there is no excuse that it's been continued now into the 21st century movies.

 

[T'Girl]

I find the whole gay thing kind of irksome. That's why I'm not gay.

That's ... really not the way it works.