Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It's like a female Dr. Who. With every passing year it seems more likely as an old franchise looks about for something fresh. Not that either of these aren't fresh in their own way right now but we know they worry they won't stay that way.

I'm not saying it is in any way inevitable, just that as a possibility it's there. So might as well hang out with the idea for a while and have some fun.

 

[Lonemagpie]

We've gone from "it will happen" to "why not" in two posts. Some prophecy. Fact is, James Bond's a white fella. If we're going to be all PC about it, at least have the next one be a black, Muslim, pregnant, disabled, lesbian, Welsh woman.

"Fact" is he has a father who was a UK (Scottish) citizen and a mother who was a Swiss citizen. That's it.

Though by inference in the novel Live And Let Die, he's not black, but it's never stated as an explicit fact

 

[Mister Fandango]

I'm honestly shocked by the amount of praise this movie is receiving. I found it incredibly dull and very non-Bondian despite all the references to other Bond films. It felt more like something from Burn Notice or one of the Bourne movies, and Silva was easily one of the most irritating, annoying, and insipid villains of recent films. His master plan relied entirely on the stupidity of the screenwriters, as did Bond's. "Herp a derp, I'm the most geniusest of computer geniuses!" decrees Q as he plugs MI6's entire network directly into the computer system of a crazy superhacker.

And I'm not kidding about the Burn Notice reference. I'm almost positive that I've seen most of those "ingenious" traps Bond and M set up in the mansion on the show. Nevermind that the whole thing was so completely non-Bondish in and of itself. And why the Hell didn't M smack the everliving fuck out of the groundskeeper if he was waving that flashlight around after they got out of the tunnel? Hell, I'm not even sure what kind of sanctuary they expected to have at the church seeing the only reason to have left the tunnels in the first place was because they knew Silva and his crew would go hunting for them once they discovered there were no bodies inside the mansion itse...

You know what, there's just too much to rant about this movie. When I go to see a Bond movie, I expect to see a Bond movie. A smooth superspy with cool gadgets, over the top action scenes, and lots of womanizing complete with hot chicks with ridiculous names. If I want to watch a cheap knock-off of a Bourne movie, I'll watch something else.

 

[JarodRussell]

You know what, there's just too much to rant about this movie. When I go to see a Bond movie, I expect to see a Bond movie. A smooth superspy with cool gadgets, over the top action scenes, and lots of womanizing complete with hot chicks with ridiculous names. If I want to watch a cheap knock-off of a Bourne movie, I'll watch something else.

But... but this film had all that.

 

[lurok]

As does Austin Powers.

 

[lurok]

In it lots you say, well I may just have to actually watch the thing.

I wouldn't say she's in it lots; but she is memorable. Take some kleenex.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Now wait a minute..

 

[Kai "the spy"]

"Fact" is he has a father who was a UK (Scottish) citizen and a mother who was a Swiss citizen. That's it.

Though by inference in the novel Live And Let Die, he's not black, but it's never stated as an explicit fact

Vesper Lynd in the CR novel: "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael, but there is something cold and ruthless."

Hoagy Carmichael:

And I hope nobody's suggesting "something cold and ruthless" means "black".

 

[Mister Fandango]

You know what, there's just too much to rant about this movie. When I go to see a Bond movie, I expect to see a Bond movie. A smooth superspy with cool gadgets, over the top action scenes, and lots of womanizing complete with hot chicks with ridiculous names. If I want to watch a cheap knock-off of a Bourne movie, I'll watch something else.

But... but this film had all that.

If you say so. A car with a red button and an implied ejector seat does not a cool Bond gadget make. Especially when the guy who dishes out the cool gadgets specifically states that they don't do that sort of thing anymore.

 

[The Wormhole]

Obviously the invisible car in Die Another Day has made quite the impact on the Bond Franchise. Ten years later and the most "out there" gadget we get is a DNA encoded pistol.

 

[Agent Richard07]

We've gone from "it will happen" to "why not" in two posts. Some prophecy. Fact is, James Bond's a white fella. If we're going to be all PC about it, at least have the next one be a black, Muslim, pregnant, disabled, lesbian, Welsh woman.

I actually had a dream last night where a female friend of mine was cast as Bond.

And why the Hell didn't M smack the everliving fuck out of the groundskeeper if he was waving that flashlight around after they got out of the tunnel? Hell, I'm not even sure what kind of sanctuary they expected to have at the church seeing the only reason to have left the tunnels in the first place was because they knew Silva and his crew would go hunting for them once they discovered there were no bodies inside the mansion itse...

Yeah, escaping into the dark and waving a flashlight around was pretty dumb. Someone said earlier that it was too dark, but still...

Is there a TV trope for when people do stuff like that?

 

[lurok]

Stupid Is As Stupid Does. Or Too Dumb To Live.

Though having a flashlight crossing an ice-covered whatever at night doesn't seem particularly dumb. Waving it around or pointing it in direction of pursuer(s) might.

 

[Ghost Bones]

And why the Hell didn't M smack the everliving fuck out of the groundskeeper if he was waving that flashlight around after they got out of the tunnel? Hell, I'm not even sure what kind of sanctuary they expected to have at the church seeing the only reason to have left the tunnels in the first place was because they knew Silva and his crew would go hunting for them once they discovered there were no bodies inside the mansion itse...

Yeah, escaping into the dark and waving a flashlight around was pretty dumb. Someone said earlier that it was too dark, but still...

Is there a TV trope for when people do stuff like that?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeingAStupidCunt

 

[Mr. Adventure]

One silly thing that bothered me is that Bond didn't take at least one more shot at Silva when he did his bit with the subway.

There were some parts of this that were definitely silly and credibility straining but then again this is Bond after all so I don't hold that too much against it.

Was some truly beautiful shots in this, this will be one to watch again just for the sights.

It will be interesting to see where they go with the next movie having set up so many of the more traditional Bond trappings. Perhaps we'll get a less introspective adventure next time out.

I understand that Idris Elba has been in talks with Barbara Broccoli to take over someday; I wouldn't mind seeing that. (I'm watching the BBC series, "Luther," and Elba definitely has the acting/action chops).

As I've said before I think Idris Elba's name is bandied about in consideration for all roles. I don't know how he'll find time to be Bond until he's done being Doctor Who.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I was teetering on A-/B+, but gave it the benefit of the doubt.

Skyfall is an excellent case of a mediocre script saved by an outstanding director. The plot (as others have alluded to) was a silly and pointless copycat, and the dialog was pretty much by-the-numbers. Most of the humor was flat and forced.

But the acting was good to excellent all around, the cinematography was artful, and the suspense held-up through the pacing.

I do have to say the film was absolutely breathtaking. Deakins out did himself (which is saying a lot). One could argue that it is the most beautiful Bond film to date.

The score, however, left something to be desired. It's definitely the weakest in recent memory--at least since Goldeneye, wich I liked more than most. Adele's song was a bland and generic and it just recycled the refrain from the Cornell song. Not to mention, the only memorable cue in the whole film was the classic guitar riff during the Aston Martin scene.

 

[Starkers]

One silly thing that bothered me is that Bond didn't take at least one more shot at Silva when he did his bit with the subway.

There were some parts of this that were definitely silly and credibility straining but then again this is Bond after all so I don't hold that too much against it.

Was some truly beautiful shots in this, this will be one to watch again just for the sights.

It will be interesting to see where they go with the next movie having set up so many of the more traditional Bond trappings. Perhaps we'll get a less introspective adventure next time out.

I understand that Idris Elba has been in talks with Barbara Broccoli to take over someday; I wouldn't mind seeing that. (I'm watching the BBC series, "Luther," and Elba definitely has the acting/action chops).

As I've said before I think Idris Elba's name is bandied about in consideration for all roles. I don't know how he'll find time to be Bond until he's done being Doctor Who.

No, no, no...no more Idris Elba should be Bond or the Doctor.

Well he could probably pull of being Bond, but not the Doctor, he just isn't quirky enough. and to be honest he couldn't be Bond unless for some reason Craig ducked out right now, he's already in his early forties, if DC does another 2 films he's going to be close to 47/48 and there's no point.

I've been a huge fan of Elba's since Ultraviolet, and I have no major problem with a black Bond/Who, hell I'd wanted Patterson Jospeh to be the Doctor for years and I still think Colin Salmon would have made a good 007, but I just don't quite see Elba as a fit for either role.

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

So. How much Dench was in it?

A lot more than two previous Bond movies.

The movie is yet to open in Australia, but tonight went to a preview screening. Wasn't full, but everyone seemed to enjoy it. Found it very enjoyable. It's up with the best movies so far this year.

I want to see it again, which will most likely be Thursday when it opens or over the weekend.

 

[lurok]

Two interesting critiques:

New Yorker - Skyfall:The Bond Market

Giles Coren on sexism in Skyfall

I think the NY review is a bit dour but have some sympathy on the pre-credit sequence. The Coren piece is interesting read and comments are a riot

 

[Starkers]

Interestingly there's a Guardian piece that says the opposite about sexism in Skyfall, I'm not sure the person who wrote it had actually seen the film...

As for Mr Coren's piece...

Well M being replaced by Mallory, women are replaced by men all the time in the workplace, just as men are replaced by women. Given Dench had obviously decided enough was enough should they have only replaced her with a woman? Wouldn't that have been...sexist?

I still feel Severine is using Bond as much as she's using him, remember this women left Bond to his fate in the casino. These men are going to kill you, if you survive why not come and find me!

Moneypenny he maybe has a point over, but even then his argument is a little weak. So Eve decides she isn't suited to work in the field, you could say the same about Q.

And as for Silva. Gay people can be evil, same as straight people can be evil, black, white, asian...guess what there's good and bad in all colours and creeds and sexuality. He's still not exactly my Wynt or My Kidd! Plus for all we know he's coming on to Bond merely to unsettle him.

The waste of good scotch line is a bit jarring, but I imagined Bond was keeping Silva's goons off guard, he did kick all their arses 5 seconds later...of course you could ask why he didn't do this before severine was shot

 

[The Wormhole]

Honestly, complaining a Bond movie is sexist is like complaining an airplane is flying or boat sailing. It's a fact of the franchise that has been an ongoing success for 50 years. Recent movies, particularly with Brosnan and especially since Craig took over have been less demeaning towards women and have given women characters substantial parts in the film at times helping Bond and being integral to victory. But in the end Bond is still meant to be the dude other guys dream of being and if that means swooping in and killing bad guys and then making out with women who were being held captive by the bad guys, then guess what, that's a formula that has worked for the past 50 years. If that bothers you, than Bond isn't your thing. Maybe that is sexist, but it's also not evil.

Still, in regards to comments made in that article:

-As mentioned above, Dench wanted this to be her last Bond movie, and there's nothing sexist just because her replacement happens to be a man. If they removed a woman from the role even though she wanted to continue and replaced her with a man, that might be sexist, but this? That's like saying Paramount is sexist just because the next Trek series after Voyager ended had a male captain. Or for that matter, they must be rascist because the next two Trek series after DS9 had white captains.

-Maybe I'm completely out to lunch here, but I was under the impression that Bond having sex with Severine was consensual. Yes, maybe he should have tried to take out Silva's goons before Silva shot her, but this is not the first time such a plot hole has ocurred, Bond movie or otherwise.

-Moneypenny has always been the "secretary," Skyfall just made her more badass and attempted to explain believably how a secretary could be badass. Besides, it seemed like she was gravitating more towards administrative work out of a preferance, not being forced into it. What exactly is the article trying to say, that women shouldn't do what they prefer to do, they should focus exclusively on a man's job? Isn't that equally offensive as blatant sexism?