Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

[Professor Zoom]

I just thought of another think that bothered me: stakes.

Once Silva's real goal is revealed, to kill M, the stakes go out of it for me. It seems small and easy--or should've been easy, but why kill your victim easily... but, I've talked about that. Basically, we have a two and a half hour Bond movie where the stakes are about saving the life of 1 person.

The NOC list is forgotten. Silva has no other goal. He doesn't want to take over the world. He doesn't want to make England pay. Just to kill one person. Which he succeeds in doing.

At least in Goldeneye, THAT former spy burned by the British Secret Service, wanted to make England pay AND make a shit load of money AND throw the world into the dark ages (right, can't remember) the stakes were HIGH. If Bond doesn't succeed the world is OVER.

In Skyfall, if he doesn't succeed, an old woman, who was probably going to retire soon, would be killed and then replaced...

 

[Captrek]

But then why does M fake Bond's death? Why does he allow her to fake his own death?

She doesn't fake his death. She thinks he is dead. He's contemplating getting out, but gets pulled back in.

4) Bond breaks into M's flat(gee...maybe someone else should have thought of that...)

He's done that before.

Caliburn24 might have been wondering why Silva didn't just break into M's house. It, apparently, isn't very hard to do. A drunken former spy, who isn't fit for duty, with no equipment was able to do it. Should be easy for a Master Hacker, no?

A lot of Silva's actions are mind-boggling. Apparently getting apprehended and then escaping was all part of the convoluted (and apparently psychic) plan. Why? It served no apparent logistical purpose.

On an unrelated note, in the word-association exercise, when the psychologist says Skyfall, Bond refuses to participate any more. Why? Because it raised an unhappy memory?

Also, how could Bond have been so clueless that he didn't realize he failed the marksmanship test and other tests? Apparently he didn't even come close to passing the marksmanship test, scoring a 40 where passing is 70.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^Re the Skyfall/psychologist query - I thought you answered your own question there. That's how I interpreted the scene anyway. We later learned that he never returned to the house until he brought M there and he didn't seem in the least bothered when it was demolished to the ground. So I thought it fairly apparent that that name was something of a trigger word for him.

 

[BillJ]

Gave it an 'A'.

Solid story, good acting and a great villain. What more could you want in this type of film?

 

[Professor Zoom]

^Re the Skyfall/psychologist query - I thought you answered your own question there. That's how I interpreted the scene anyway. We later learned that he never returned to the house until he brought M there and he didn't seem in the least bothered when it was demolished to the ground. So I thought it fairly apparent that that name was something of a trigger word for him.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear in hindsight why Bond stopped talking at the mention of his boyhood home. Doesn't seem like there's a lot of good memories, and Bond doesn't strike me as a sharer.

 

[Samurai8472]

Caliburn24 might have been wondering why Silva didn't just break into M's house. It, apparently, isn't very hard to do. A drunken former spy, who isn't fit for duty, with no equipment was able to do it. Should be easy for a Master Hacker, no?

Ah the old bond movie cliche " why don't you just shoot him?

Scott Evil: Wait, aren't you even going to watch them? They could get away!
Dr. Evil: No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying, I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. What?
Scott Evil: I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out!
Dr. Evil: Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't.

 

[TedShatner10]

At least in Goldeneye, THAT former spy burned by the British Secret Service, wanted to make England pay AND make a shit load of money AND throw the world into the dark ages (right, can't remember) the stakes were HIGH. If Bond doesn't succeed the world is OVER.

It'd be over for the UK for decades, not necessarily for the world for all time (a destructive EMP blast would rip through London; terrible, but still falling far short of Stromberg triggering WWII).

If Silva could've brought himself or sent hitmen to M's townhouse, he could've also killed M there and then when he blew up the top floor of MI6 - he seemed to be slowly and sadistically playing with M before killing her (like Dr. Evil).

His escape from MI6 custody to get at M at the courthouse seemed to be emergency plan B and him storming Skyfall in a helicopter was emergency plan C (he succeeded but unfortunately for him got killed as well).

The NOC list subplot seemed to have dropped out of the story when Silva was captured and his island operation shut down.

 

[Ghost Bones]

I love the film but even I am a bit miffed with how ridiculous Silva's plan is. That said you could say the same about most Bond films, hell even Casino Royale makes little sense if you think about it and is built upon a house of cards of contrivences.

What do you mean even Casino Royale? It's as ridiculous as any Bond film, if not more.

In fact, just last week HISHE did it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byku-4Sl4zE

My ‘even Casino Royale’ statement was made from the perspective that a large majority of people see it as some kind of perfect uber film, which it isn’t, it’s as flawed as any other, in fact in some ways I find the contrivances more jarring because it proclaims to be a “realistic” Bond film. At least when I see Roger Moore with a laser gun I know to suspend my disbelief.

Ah, well. Couldn't agree more. Some of the sheer bollocks people talked about Casino Royale when it came out was breathtaking. Statements like "The James Bond films are an anachronism" and "They've successfully brought it up to date with a bang" were made as though they're somehow intelligently considered analysis. All they really did was make a film as stupid as ever, replaced James Bond with a weathered old chavvy thug, and waited for the plaudits to unthinkingly roll in.

Most people are too kind. It is the worst film ever made.

Not in a universe where Batman and Robin exists.

Batman and Robin is Citizen Kane, Rear Window and The Conversation combined compared to Cuntum of Solace.

5) Patrice(the assassin) uses depleted uranium bullets(whatever, its a Bond movie) which makes it easy to identify and track him. AND FOR SOME REASON Bond kept three pieces of the bullet that hit him inside his shoulder, just waiting for the right time to pull them out.

Gosh, I'd forgotten all about that. That's as ridiculous as it gets. Your entire post is quite brilliant, in fact. You remind me of me.

I think Goldeneye's legacy has seriously benefited from having one of the best computer games ever based on it.

I think that's very true, especially among the generation most represented in discussing these things on the internet.

Gave it an 'A'.

Solid story, good acting and a great villain. What more could you want in this type of film?

A solid story.

And while the action and direction were top notch, a lot of the dialogue was eye-rolling for me.

 

[Professor Zoom]

If Silva could've brought himself or sent hitmen to M's townhouse, he could've also killed M there and then when he blew up the top floor of MI6 - he seemed to be slowly and sadistically playing with M before killing her (like Dr. Evil).

Which he was already doing before his capture...

His escape from MI6 custody to get at M at the courthouse seemed to be emergency plan B and him storming Skyfall in a helicopter was emergency plan C (he succeeded but unfortunately for him got killed as well).

BUT, according to the movie his capture was a part of his plan. IT was Plan A. Q even says, he must've been planning this for years.

Plan B was Skyfall.

Plan C was probably nuking from orbit, just to be sure.

The NOC list subplot seemed to have dropped out of the story when Silva was captured and his island operation shut down.

Pity. While a recycled plot from a different spy franchise, that subplot had stakes.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Pity. While a recycled plot from a different spy franchise, that subplot had stakes.

I don't see why M, by now a pretty familiar and beloved part of the franchise, isn't sufficient stakes.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Because she's some old woman who's about to be retired and replaced anyway.

 

[CaptainCanada]

So? She's a very popular and familiar character after nearly 20 years.

 

[sidious618]

I liked the smaller stakes as it made me more interested. Another "he's going to take over/destroy the world!" would be rather boring.

 

[Professor Zoom]

So? She's a very popular and familiar character after nearly 20 years.

She's a spy. She isn't more important than the mission, than the job. She feels that way. She said as much at the beginning of the movie. And the movie didn't really do much to change that.

It's great that she was in danger, as she was a familiar character, but with the villain's ONLY goal was her death, it made the stakes small. Again, she was going to retire. What is her value to the safety of the country? Over someone threatening to destroy all of the banking with an EMP blast.

Personally, in my spy movies I do like a little higher stakes.

I liked the smaller stakes as it made me more interested. Another "he's going to take over/destroy the world!" would be rather boring.

Pretty much ALL of the Bond movies have had some aspect of trying to take over the world, are all of them boring?

Let's look at License to Kill, it was personal for Bond, getting revenge but there was a LARGER thing at stake as well, that whole pesky War of Drugs thing.

I get what you're saying about the smaller stakes, but it was a sort of asymmetrical battle against those stakes. The movie brought all of the explosions and gunfire of a You Only Live Twice, with the stakes of a indie thriller.

 

[sidious618]

Pretty much ALL of the Bond movies have had some aspect of trying to take over the world, are all of them boring?

Let's look at License to Kill, it was personal for Bond, getting revenge but there was a LARGER thing at stake as well, that whole pesky War of Drugs thing.

I get what you're saying about the smaller stakes, but it was a sort of asymmetrical battle against those stakes. The movie brought all of the explosions and gunfire of a You Only Live Twice, with the stakes of a indie thriller.

No, not all of the ones with that plot are boring but some are. However, the previous two Craig films did not have anything involving taking over the world. "From Russia With Love," arguably the most respected Bond film, was not about taking over the world. I also think mixing an indie plot with a big budget sounds like a really cool movie...

 

[Ghost Bones]

So? She's a very popular and familiar character after nearly 20 years.

Well even that's only if we assume she's the same character as the Brosnan M. Personally I don't care about her at all, she's an average and not very interesting character. But even if I thought she was brilliant, in the universe of the film she's still not important. Not much changes for the world if she dies. It's only because we've seen her before. And it's that kind of insular plot that makes the whole thing seem so fannish.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Pretty much ALL of the Bond movies have had some aspect of trying to take over the world, are all of them boring?

Let's look at License to Kill, it was personal for Bond, getting revenge but there was a LARGER thing at stake as well, that whole pesky War of Drugs thing.

I get what you're saying about the smaller stakes, but it was a sort of asymmetrical battle against those stakes. The movie brought all of the explosions and gunfire of a You Only Live Twice, with the stakes of a indie thriller.

No, not all of the ones with that plot are boring but some are. However, the previous two Craig films did not have anything involving taking over the world.

True, because that would be far to cartoonish for this new Bond. BUT, the organization he was facing had its hands in terrorist plots, monopolies on precious resources for power and money. And those plots affected large numbers of innocent people.

"From Russia With Love," arguably the most respected Bond film, was not about taking over the world.

True. But it was about two super powers fighting over a great MacGuffin that would give them leverage over the other.

I also think mixing an indie plot with a big budget sounds like a really cool movie...

Yeah... would love to see that someday...

 

[JarodRussell]

I never got what's supposed to be so great about From Russia With Love. The only good thing is the train sequence at the end. And the music throughout the film. The rest of the film I found pretty cheesy, and Tatiana's got to be the most stupid Bond girl I've ever seen.

 

[BillJ]

BUT, the organization he was facing had its hands in terrorist plots, monopolies on precious resources for power and money. And those plots affected large numbers of innocent people.

Did they really need to spell out higher stakes though? I understand that the guy is bad, has already did all kinds of bad shit and will likely do more bad shit in the future.

I say this as a casual Bond watcher.

 

[inflatabledalek]

So? She's a very popular and familiar character after nearly 20 years.

Well even that's only if we assume she's the same character as the Brosnan M. Personally I don't care about her at all, she's an average and not very interesting character. But even if I thought she was brilliant, in the universe of the film she's still not important. Not much changes for the world if she dies. It's only because we've seen her before. And it's that kind of insular plot that makes the whole thing seem so fannish.

Surely she's even more important to Craig's Bond than the Brosnan-era version of the character was? To Craig she's the (not always friendly) mentor who brought him into the service and is probably the closest thing he has to family (he even jokingly compares her to his mother in Solace). She's far more than just the new boss he learns to respect as was the case in her first four films.