Size Of The New Enterprise (large images)

[darkwing_duck1]

Deks is right.

If a replicator converts matter to energy and then re-integrates that energy into matter in a new pattern why would it need matter to begin with?

This is supported by TNG's "Second Chances" and TOS's "The Enemy Within." In both cases the transporter creates duplicate people with no additional source matter. If the transporter can create matter from energy with no source matter, the replicator can too.

Those were MISuses of the transporter, violating their own preestablished rules.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Alan Dean Foster's movie adaptation states a 3000 foot length which is about three times scaling with a 9 times increase in floor area and 27 times increase in volume and comes out with 72 decks.
I like that as the Enterprise should have 'presence' that such a top of the line ST heavy cruiser should have as the original is too small.
I consider this alternate reality to be a good idea though having cadets just appointed officers and Captain is troubling.
Still, it makes a good movie.

John Eaves has chimed in with a 3000' length that was being used at the point HE was on the project. One thing he said he was 100% certain of: it was SUPPOSED to be a much bigger ship.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I think the real point is that Bernd has spent a great deal of time, effort and probably money in creating a very credible and very detailed Star Trek reference website, but he's doing himself no favors by taking the stances he has toward the current movie and particularly toward the nuEnterprise. Where everything had previously been subject to verification and, in the face of new information, revision, what he's doing now has too much the appearance of someone confronted with a thing he does not want to accept, reacting to it by sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling at the top of his voice "La la la la la la la, I can't hear you! If I can't hear you, then I don't have to believe it's truuuuue!" It's that credibility he's worked so long to establish which is taking a hit, no matter how good the rest of his site remains.

Exactly so, and it's really sad. Up to this point I've had nothing but respect for what he's done.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I went back to EAS and I wasn’t disappointed - get a load of this: Now he’s saying the bridge window is half-recessed into the saucer (basement-window style) and it’s a “VFX error” that you can see space and the saucer out the bridge window.
If Bernd truly believes that it was the intention of the writers/directors/vfx people to have the window half buried in the saucer (thus 100% defeating the point of having a window on the bridge!) he has truely lost it. I could get it if he just said the window is too small on the outside, but this?

If only his site had a sense of humor it could be great.

Bernd may dislike the reinterpretation of Star Trek ships, sets, characters and technology, but the way he’s treating it (totally ignoring the big-ship intentions of the writers/directors/etc to make it fit into his version of what Trek should be) people aren’t going to be able to use his site as a serious/accurate/reliable STXI reference, thus defeating the whole object of his website.

Honestly, do you feel better that you are on the larger ship bandwagon? Just because he doesn't believe the ship to be that large, does that mean that suddenly his point of view is not valid? He has his own website which he updates on his own, at his own expense. He doesn't share your point of view but that doesn't entitle you or anyone to ridicule him. Not meaning to be preachy, but I have a big problem with he flack that Bernd has recieved over this. It's his website and his point of view, he's entitled to his opinion. I find his site to be just as useful now as it ever was. You dont have to agree with every one of his viewpoints, but you can not debate the fact that he spends WAAAY more time analyzing the size of these ships and does a great service to the Star Trek fan community by providing a website at his own expense that everyone of us has visited and found useful at some point. Next time anyone wants to criticize him for his views, why dont you step back and make your own website and see how people treat you.

No one is denying him his "props" for his hard work.

When he deliberately sets himself up in a position that defies all evidence, reason, and logic, he's gonna have to expect some heat for it though.

There are worse than him by far out there...Randy Landers comes to mind. I once tried to do friendly debate with him about the Vulcan "attitude" in "Enterprise" and I thought my screen was going to melt from the flame he started firing...

 

[Squiggy]

I think the real point is that Bernd has spent a great deal of time, effort and probably money in creating a very credible and very detailed Star Trek reference website, but he's doing himself no favors by taking the stances he has toward the current movie and particularly toward the nuEnterprise. Where everything had previously been subject to verification and, in the face of new information, revision, what he's doing now has too much the appearance of someone confronted with a thing he does not want to accept, reacting to it by sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling at the top of his voice "La la la la la la la, I can't hear you! If I can't hear you, then I don't have to believe it's truuuuue!" It's that credibility he's worked so long to establish which is taking a hit, no matter how good the rest of his site remains.

Exactly so, and it's really sad. Up to this point I've had nothing but respect for what he's done.

It makes no sense. "I'm going to take a highly successfully and universally popular thing...and then shit on it every chance I get."

 

[Psion]

I think the real point is that Bernd has spent a great deal of time, effort and probably money in creating a very credible and very detailed Star Trek reference website, but he's doing himself no favors by taking the stances he has toward the current movie and particularly toward the nuEnterprise. Where everything had previously been subject to verification and, in the face of new information, revision, what he's doing now has too much the appearance of someone confronted with a thing he does not want to accept, reacting to it by sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling at the top of his voice "La la la la la la la, I can't hear you! If I can't hear you, then I don't have to believe it's truuuuue!" It's that credibility he's worked so long to establish which is taking a hit, no matter how good the rest of his site remains.

Dennis was right when he said that if Bernd didn't want to accept the details of the Abrams version of Star Trek, and indications continue to be that such is the case, then the best thing for him to do would have been to draw a thick black line after Nemesis and Enterprise and say "That's it. This is as far as my site goes."

This is the edge of the map. Past here there be monsters.

He looks to me to be taking a purposeful stand against the stated size of the ship, not sticking his fingers in his ears and denying reality. He even references size quotes from a variety of pro-700 meter sources. More than likely, his opinions and that page are in a bit of flux over this issue -- admit it, from a "treknology" perspective, that ship size is a shocker and as the preceding pages have proven, the film is self-contradictory as to the actual dimensions of the vessel. But he lists several very valid reasons why the "super-sized" Enterprise, as shown, is idiotic, regardless of the claims of the production team.

 

[Mangledduk]

I think the real point is that Bernd has spent a great deal of time, effort and probably money in creating a very credible and very detailed Star Trek reference website, but he's doing himself no favors by taking the stances he has toward the current movie and particularly toward the nuEnterprise. Where everything had previously been subject to verification and, in the face of new information, revision, what he's doing now has too much the appearance of someone confronted with a thing he does not want to accept, reacting to it by sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling at the top of his voice "La la la la la la la, I can't hear you! If I can't hear you, then I don't have to believe it's truuuuue!" It's that credibility he's worked so long to establish which is taking a hit, no matter how good the rest of his site remains.

Dennis was right when he said that if Bernd didn't want to accept the details of the Abrams version of Star Trek, and indications continue to be that such is the case, then the best thing for him to do would have been to draw a thick black line after Nemesis and Enterprise and say "That's it. This is as far as my site goes."

This is the edge of the map. Past here there be monsters.

He looks to me to be taking a purposeful stand against the stated size of the ship, not sticking his fingers in his ears and denying reality. He even references size quotes from a variety of pro-700 meter sources. More than likely, his opinions and that page are in a bit of flux over this issue -- admit it, from a "treknology" perspective, that ship size is a shocker and as the preceding pages have proven, the film is self-contradictory as to the actual dimensions of the vessel. But he lists several very valid reasons why the "super-sized" Enterprise, as shown, is idiotic, regardless of the claims of the production team.

I completely agree with you. I couldn't have said it better myself. I just find it wrong to continue to flame someone who isn't even posting in defense.

 

[Richard Baker]

I think the super-sized ship is stupid- it is just not designed and detailed to represent the stated size.
That said- the people creatng the movie have the right to make any stupid decision they want to as they are in control of things now. This movie was not intended to make fans happy or even be analyised- they made that very clear. It did succeed where a lot of Trek films did not- it got butts into the theater seats.

.

 

[Gepard]

He looks to me to be taking a purposeful stand against the stated size of the ship, not sticking his fingers in his ears and denying reality. .

Which, for a supposedly unbiased reference site, is a bad way to go. You're agreeing with the fingers-in-ears thing, just prettying it up so it doesn't sound as silly as it is.

 

[Sector 7]

Hmm Where's Preator? can't call this thread closed with out him!

Say, that's nice of you.

Count me in, too. Dead and dead. Nuke this thread from orbit! (It's the safest way.)

Can a dose of Red Matter be used instead?

"FIRE EVERYTHING!"

 

[M'Sharak]

I think the real point is that Bernd has spent a great deal of time, effort and probably money in creating a very credible and very detailed Star Trek reference website, but he's doing himself no favors by taking the stances he has toward the current movie and particularly toward the nuEnterprise. Where everything had previously been subject to verification and, in the face of new information, revision, what he's doing now has too much the appearance of someone confronted with a thing he does not want to accept, reacting to it by sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling at the top of his voice "La la la la la la la, I can't hear you! If I can't hear you, then I don't have to believe it's truuuuue!" It's that credibility he's worked so long to establish which is taking a hit, no matter how good the rest of his site remains.

Dennis was right when he said that if Bernd didn't want to accept the details of the Abrams version of Star Trek, and indications continue to be that such is the case, then the best thing for him to do would have been to draw a thick black line after Nemesis and Enterprise and say "That's it. This is as far as my site goes."

This is the edge of the map. Past here there be monsters.

He looks to me to be taking a purposeful stand against the stated size of the ship, not sticking his fingers in his ears and denying reality. He even references size quotes from a variety of pro-700 meter sources. More than likely, his opinions and that page are in a bit of flux over this issue -- admit it, from a "treknology" perspective, that ship size is a shocker and as the preceding pages have proven, the film is self-contradictory as to the actual dimensions of the vessel. But he lists several very valid reasons why the "super-sized" Enterprise, as shown, is idiotic, regardless of the claims of the production team.

Perhaps the "fingers in the ears" part was overstating it a bit, but in crossing the line from being an objective cataloguer of aired and/or screened Trek details to taking an editorial posture challenging a Star Trek movie which is in all senses an official production and Official Trek, he (by extension) changes the nature of the whole site. If he had kept his skepticism and his active criticism of the film and the filmmakers separate in some way -- say, maintained that activity on a website or blog which was not directly part of EAS until such time as his opinions had gotten past that state of flux which you suppose and I admit to be entirely likely -- then the impression of EAS as an objectively-maintained reference source would remain.

By making that skepticism and criticism (some of it far less measured than it could have been, to put it mildly) essentially an official position of EAS, I think that he's potentially damaged the credibility of the site as a whole. You may catalog dispassionately or you may actively question and challenge, but it's very hard to ride both horses at once (even if the "super-sized" Enterprise really is idiotic.) There has to have been a more graceful way for him to have handled the matter.

 

[Mangledduk]

Well....since this thread was never closed, and its still officially a New Enterprise size thread, check this out...a post from the Startrekmovie.com forums...seems to confirm what many of us have been saying all along..the ship changed scales throughout the movie..

In the latest issue of Cinefex magazine, Industrial Light and Magic art director Alex Jaeger states that the new USS Enterprise in the current movie was at first scaled at 1,200 feet, an increase from the 947 feet of the original Enterprise. However, once the ship was placed in various environments, it seemed too small.

The shuttle bay gave ILM "a clear relative scale," Jaeger notes. The shuttles "initially appeared much bigger than we had imagined," said Jaeger. The ship was therefore "bumped up" in size, which gave her a "grander feel."

Jaeger said that JJ Abrams gave ILM free rein, entrusting them with the job of designing the starship based on "two decades" of experience building the ship.

ILM CGI supervisor Tom Fejes oversaw the digital construction of the ship, the article said.

Hope they make the models in the 1200 feet (366meter) scale..Wonder what they will list it as in the manual.

Heres what it looks like in that scale...what do you know, it makes sense

 

[Amaris]

I honestly don't know what to think at this point. It looks larger on paper, but not on screen. Either way, it's a beautiful ship.

J.

 

[M'Sharak]

Well....since this thread was never closed, and its still officially a New Enterprise size thread, check this out...a post from the Startrekmovie.com forums...seems to confirm what many of us have been saying all along..the ship changed scales throughout the movie..

In the latest issue of Cinefex magazine, Industrial Light and Magic art director Alex Jaeger states that the new USS Enterprise in the current movie was at first scaled at 1,200 feet, an increase from the 947 feet of the original Enterprise. However, once the ship was placed in various environments, it seemed too small.

The shuttle bay gave ILM "a clear relative scale," Jaeger notes. The shuttles "initially appeared much bigger than we had imagined," said Jaeger. The ship was therefore "bumped up" in size, which gave her a "grander feel."

Jaeger said that JJ Abrams gave ILM free rein, entrusting them with the job of designing the starship based on "two decades" of experience building the ship.

ILM CGI supervisor Tom Fejes oversaw the digital construction of the ship, the article said.

<snip>

Since the post quoted seems largely involved with paraphrasing or quoting from a Cinefex article (it's difficult to tell which, in places) this may not be as big a deal, but did you obtain the permission of "Star Trek Viewer" to repost his/her post content here?

From the section of the TrekBBS board rules concerning privacy:

On the internet, a person's privacy is very valuable. Unless a poster has made it clear they don't mind, you can't post any details of their real-life identity on the board. You also cannot post material such as chat logs, emails, private messages or messages from other message boards - without the consent of all involved parties.

 

[Shaw]

I think the real point is that Bernd has spent a great deal of time, effort and probably money in creating a very credible and very detailed Star Trek reference website, but he's doing himself no favors by taking the stances he has toward the current movie and particularly toward the nuEnterprise. Where everything had previously been subject to verification and, in the face of new information, revision, what he's doing now has too much the appearance of someone confronted with a thing he does not want to accept, reacting to it by sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling at the top of his voice "La la la la la la la, I can't hear you! If I can't hear you, then I don't have to believe it's truuuuue!" It's that credibility he's worked so long to establish which is taking a hit, no matter how good the rest of his site remains.

Dennis was right when he said that if Bernd didn't want to accept the details of the Abrams version of Star Trek, and indications continue to be that such is the case, then the best thing for him to do would have been to draw a thick black line after Nemesis and Enterprise and say "That's it. This is as far as my site goes."

This is the edge of the map. Past here there be monsters.

Please forgive me if I'm confusing two different people as I don't visit many of these types of fan sites... but if this is the person I think it is that you are talking about, how is his reaction different than his reaction to the NX-01 when that was first introduced? I mean, honestly, is this guy doing anything really different than he has been doing all this time or is it more that he has found himself on the opposite side of this issue from many in this forum?

It is funny... all this sounds very much like people claiming to support other's rights to say what they want as long as it is in agreement with what they believe.

________________________​

There have been calls to close this thread because a couple people agree on the length of the moment (I believe one call came when 762 meters was agreed on, another came after 720 or so meters)... it seems to me that those people who believe they know what the length is shouldn't have any further reason to participate in this thread rather than make attempt to keep others from continuing the discussion.

For my part, from what had been expressed by the makers of this film before it was even released, I doubt they have settled on a size yet. But some of the arguments for and against different lengths are quite entertaining none the less.

________________________​

On a slightly different topic, has anyone attempted to compare the relative sizes of Koerner's Enterprise with Church's Enterprise?

Just curious.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Well....since this thread was never closed, and its still officially a New Enterprise size thread, check this out...a post from the Startrekmovie.com forums...seems to confirm what many of us have been saying all along..the ship changed scales throughout the movie..

In the latest issue of Cinefex magazine, Industrial Light and Magic art director Alex Jaeger states that the new USS Enterprise in the current movie was at first scaled at 1,200 feet, an increase from the 947 feet of the original Enterprise. However, once the ship was placed in various environments, it seemed too small.

The shuttle bay gave ILM "a clear relative scale," Jaeger notes. The shuttles "initially appeared much bigger than we had imagined," said Jaeger. The ship was therefore "bumped up" in size, which gave her a "grander feel."

Jaeger said that JJ Abrams gave ILM free rein, entrusting them with the job of designing the starship based on "two decades" of experience building the ship.

ILM CGI supervisor Tom Fejes oversaw the digital construction of the ship, the article said.

Hope they make the models in the 1200 feet (366meter) scale..Wonder what they will list it as in the manual.

Heres what it looks like in that scale...what do you know, it makes sense

So now we have Jaeger at 1200' but rescaled, we have Eaves saying it was ALWAYS much bigger (and giving 3000'), the Interactive Tour at 2500', Bad Robot at 2300',
Abrams saying he didn't want us to "obsess over the minutiae", and Geoff Mendell fired for even attempting a size comparison.

Does that about cover it?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

On a slightly different topic, has anyone attempted to compare the relative sizes of Koerner's Enterprise with Church's Enterprise?

Just curious.

Dang! I see SOOO many similarities of line here...wonder if Gabe is gonna wind up getting paid some dough...

 

[M'Sharak]

(click the pointer if you want to read this again)

Please forgive me if I'm confusing two different people as I don't visit many of these types of fan sites... but if this is the person I think it is that you are talking about, how is his reaction different than his reaction to the NX-01 when that was first introduced? I mean, honestly, is this guy doing anything really different than he has been doing all this time or is it more that he has found himself on the opposite side of this issue from many in this forum?

It is funny... all this sounds very much like people claiming to support other's rights to say what they want as long as it is in agreement with what they believe.

Having begun to participate in online Trek stuff around mid-Season 2 of Enterprise, I must admit that I missed whatever his reaction to NX-01 may have been. I could guess, but it would be no more than a guess and probably off the mark. Whatever the case, I liked NX-01 and still do, so I personally don't feel like I'm on the other side of anything this time around.

I've said before, in this thread and elsewhere, that EAS is an old, very thorough and very useful Star Trek reference site, representing many hours of collecting and organizing material and information, and well-respected as such. I've said also that it's his site to do with as he pleases, but I do think that his choice of using it also as an editorial soapbox on this issue may weaken the site's credibility as a reference source; that activity might better be pursued at another site not directly part of EAS.

That's me speaking for me, though. I'm not "people claiming to support other's rights to say what they want as long as it is in agreement with what they believe," nor have I ever been.

 

[USS KG5]

...but I do think that his choice of using it also as an editorial soapbox on this issue may weaken the site's credibility as a reference source; that activity might better be pursued at another site not directly part of EAS.

Yeah, doesn't he know what Wikipedia is for!

 

[saddestmoon]

I love the bigger size! :-) I think it works well, considering the events in the timeline.

I reckon that after the next Trek XII movie, this will be nothing but a long distant storm-in-a-teacup...