Size Of The New Enterprise (large images)

[Mangledduk]

I'd be more open to it if there were better evidence FOR it. As it stands, the evidence leads me (and most of the rest of us) to a 716-762m ship.

I respect your hard work. I just don't agree with your conclusions. IMO, you underscale the shuttle vs a human figure AND underscale the shuttle vs bay size.

Fair enough On another note though, I actually have done diagrams for the ship being all the different sizes that ILM came out with. I only posted up the 470 meter length because it was the size I was working on at the time. I felt like playing devils advocate. Here's my 610 meter (2000 foot) diagram i did about a week ago.

Incidently I used a larger scale shuttle in this diagram. The only reason my shuttles were smaller is because people on another board were telling me my shuttles were scaled too big. Figures

If you guys want, I have diagrams for everything up to over 700 meters as well, just let me know and I'll post them.

Your 610m diagram looks much more like what we see in the film than the 400-something. I certainly wouldn't go BELOW that for LoA.

I agree, I actually think this IS what we see. I especially think that now after seeing this new article from ILM saying they thought the original ship was 1300 feet long and they scaled it up to 2000 feet. This little error on their part could explain all the inconsistencies we see in the film. Its possible they told some people that the ship was 1.5 times the length of the original with the same proportions as the original (construction scene) and they scaled the ship according to that, and others (shuttle bay scene) that the ship is 2000 feet and they scaled it to match that. If that happened, its really an honest mistake that no one other than us would even notice.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I agree, I actually think this IS what we see. I especially think that now after seeing this new article from ILM saying they thought the original ship was 1300 feet long and they scaled it up to 2000 feet. This little error on their part could explain all the inconsistencies we see in the film. Its possible they told some people that the ship was 1.5 times the length of the original with the same proportions as the original (construction scene) and they scaled the ship according to that, and others (shuttle bay scene) that the ship is 2000 feet and they scaled it to match that. If that happened, its really an honest mistake that no one other than us would even notice.

Which is where we get to the "devil in the details"...

My primary contention is that since the ship can ONLY be one size, we have to scale her to accomodate her largest measurable feature, in this case the shuttlebay. Even if every other detail was out of scale at the legth it required to fit the bay, I would go with the length that accomodated the bay.

 

[KlingonPredator]

Allright ...so the ship may be 2000 feet long....what does she weigh? I'm leaving that to you experts,but I'm guessing in the neighborhood of 30 million tons or so....

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Allright ...so the ship may be 2000 feet long....what does she weigh? I'm leaving that to you experts,but I'm guessing in the neighborhood of 30 million tons or so....

Scotty once said the original was a "million tons", but most fans put her in the 190-210,000 range.

At 2000' she'd be just over twice the length of the original, but I'm not sure how that scales volume (and thus tonnage). At 2500' she'd be just UNDER 3x original.

The "official stats" from the interactive tour have her ~445,000mt.

 

[Mangledduk]

I agree, I actually think this IS what we see. I especially think that now after seeing this new article from ILM saying they thought the original ship was 1300 feet long and they scaled it up to 2000 feet. This little error on their part could explain all the inconsistencies we see in the film. Its possible they told some people that the ship was 1.5 times the length of the original with the same proportions as the original (construction scene) and they scaled the ship according to that, and others (shuttle bay scene) that the ship is 2000 feet and they scaled it to match that. If that happened, its really an honest mistake that no one other than us would even notice.

Which is where we get to the "devil in the details"...

My primary contention is that since the ship can ONLY be one size, we have to scale her to accomodate her largest measurable feature, in this case the shuttlebay. Even if every other detail was out of scale at the legth it required to fit the bay, I would go with the length that accomodated the bay.

And thats perfectly okay for you to have that view. I kind of look at it the way I look at the Enterprise A scaling on Star Trek 5. You have a tiny shuttlebay, but then you somehow have 78 decks inside of the ship..Its just part of Star Trek...

 

[Richard Baker]

Star Trek 5 was totally inept. They shrunk the hangar deck to fit a small live action stage available- the doors change from the traditional angled ones on the filming model to vertical panels on the set.
Regarding the turbolift deck count- if you watch the sequence carefully you see the same numbers get passed by several times-

 

[Praetor]

Monkey wrench: do we know for sure that the thing at the front of the bridge dome that also happens to correspond with the shape of the lights on the TMP ship is indeed the bridge "window"? If so, what about the two on either side? Are those not windows but the front one is? Or am I an idiot?

 

[jstimson]

All the various numbers, calculations, official and unofficial sources aside......

When viewing the movie the Enterprise just "looks" like it should be around the same size as the TOS and TMP ship. The surface details, windows, airlocks, etc. all give this impression.

If we get an iron clad statement that the ship is >700m then I will accept it. I won't like it, but I'll accept it.

BTW, for those going off the viewscreen windows, you do realize that the window/viewscreen is not floor to ceiling, right? It starts at what appears to be just below knee height from the bridge floor. Just saying.

 

[RAMA]

I'm still ok with the 716 meter figure...or the larger one.

RAMA, officially now awaiting the offical word on the official length

 

[Praetor]

By contrast, I will pleasantly surprised if it's somehow smaller. But it's not. It's huuuge!

 

[Gepard]

Monkey wrench: do we know for sure that the thing at the front of the bridge dome that also happens to correspond with the shape of the lights on the TMP ship is indeed the bridge "window"?

Yes. There's a faux-crane shot that pulls back from that location, looking in from the outside, and tracks back across the saucer. It gives a pretty solid idea where and how big the bridge is. IMO, when it comes to nailing down the scale, that's the best indisputable data we've got.

 

[Praetor]

Monkey wrench: do we know for sure that the thing at the front of the bridge dome that also happens to correspond with the shape of the lights on the TMP ship is indeed the bridge "window"?

Yes. There's a faux-crane shot that pulls back from that location, looking in from the outside, and tracks back across the saucer. It gives a pretty solid idea where and how big the bridge is. IMO, when it comes to nailing down the scale, that's the best indisputable data we've got.

Oh. I forgot about that shot but I do remember it now. Nevermind!

 

[S'kai]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

I don't think it's any bigger. They just had to use models for the old ships in the 60s through 90s and now they are using computer technology to show the ship. So they look bigger to the audience. Doesn't mean it is any bigger.

You mean it always was 900-something meters long? Could be...

The 289 meter Enterprise was a great ship . . . but that was in another life . . .

 

[Praetor]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

We could still commit the heresy of scaling up the TOS and TMP ships. But then we might appear to have size envy.

 

[ATimson]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

We could still commit the heresy of scaling up the TOS and TMP ships. But then we might appear to have size envy.

"Appear"?

 

[Praetor]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

Hey, don't look at me. I'm have no self-confidence issues.

 

[Mangledduk]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

I don't think it's any bigger. They just had to use models for the old ships in the 60s through 90s and now they are using computer technology to show the ship. So they look bigger to the audience. Doesn't mean it is any bigger.

You mean it always was 900-something meters long? Could be...

The 289 meter Enterprise was a great ship . . . but that was in another life . . .

I just laughed out loud at this comment..good one. I just watched the movie again, and the ship seems to be about the same size at the old one in some shots and waaay bigger in other shots. I swear they did that to screw with all of us I really am starting to believe they want us to think of it as pretty much the same size while showing more extravagant sets than we have ever seen. I would not be surprised if the new technical manual coming out didn't even have official dimensions on the ship, haha.

 

[Anticitizen]

Or they'll publish the specs with made-up units (similar to kiloquads in DS9).

 

[ATimson]

Or they'll publish the specs with made-up units (similar to kiloquads in DS9).

At least with -quads there's a good reason behind the made up units (otherwise you would end up with anachronisms like my server having more storage in it than the Enterprise-D's library computer). But when you're talking units of measurement... well, pretty hard to get anachronistic with that, I think.

 

[EJD1984]

Well, I did the required daily scaling comparison.

Based on ILM's Bruce Holcomb comments, here's the 2000ft (609m) NuE.

With this scaling, the docking ports are approximately 11ft dia, where as at the 1300 scale they'd be 7ft dia.

Though we're back to an old farmiliar issue. Looks like the hanger bay doors are of a similar height as compared to the TMP.

The statement by Bruce Holcomb seems to add some substantial validly that they may have initially modeled the ship at 1300ft, and completed some efx using that model, i.e. construction sequence. Then word came in that Abrams wanted it scaled up to 2000ft.

That could be why there appears to be a "normal" TMP style bridge at the top of the saucer, and with the upscale they were forced to use the "light slot" for the placement of the bridge. I would have liked to of seen the bridge set scaled 54% up as well to match, and truly have made it a massive command center. Though the set may have been built by that time and it was too late (and expensive) to change.

Seems to me that the choice to use the immense brewery as engineering may have been the single "biggest" factor in scaling up the Enterprise.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a new director comes in for the next movie and the ship shrinks back down to the now suspected original 1300ft (396m) scale.