Sisko

[Prax]

Since no one has answered, this is all he says:

Picard "Welcome to Bajor, Commander"
Sisko(grim faced) "It's been a long time, Captain"
Picard "Have we met before?"
Sisko "Yes, Sir. We met in battle. ...at wolf 3-5-9."
(awkward silence as Picard looks away in shame)

 

[Nakita Akita]

Since no one has answered, this is all he says:

Picard "Welcome to Bajor, Commander"
Sisko(grim faced) "It's been a long time, Captain"
Picard "Have we met before?"
Sisko "Yes, Sir. We met in battle. ...at wolf 3-5-9."
(awkward silence as Picard looks away in shame)

But it comes down to the nuances and acting ability of Stewart and Brooks.
Just reading those lines of one was unfamiliar with the show......
Could be read a number of ways.
I took acting classes.
That was a common exercise.
To read and act the same lines in different ways.
I guess I just figure most trek fans major in math a science in school.

 

[eschaton]

My two cents as a niner:

Avery Brooks was probably the second-weakest actor in the cast, with only Terry Farrell giving a worse performance. That said, it was in large part because so much of the main cast was absolutely stellar - by far the best cast overall from an actorly standpoint that Trek has seen. Given the ultimate structure of DS9 however it didn't matter that much though that Brooks was a comparably "weak link." Sisko had the smallest proportion of lines/scripted dialogue out of any Trek captain (till Lorca). There were many episodes where Brooks basically just showed up to collect his paycheck and did a three-minute scene in his office about something trivial. They mostly only used Sisko when they needed to, and he could, when needed, hit it out of the park.

Still, I know Tony Todd auditioned for the role of Sisko, and I can't help but wonder what the role would have been like in his capable hands. He had only minor parts in Trek, but he was typically stellar in whatever show he was on. He didn't have the star power of Brooks, but he could have brought a lot to the role.

 

[Nakita Akita]

My two cents as a niner:

Avery Brooks was probably the second-weakest actor in the cast, with only Terry Farrell giving a worse performance. That said, it was in large part because so much of the main cast was absolutely stellar - by far the best cast overall from an actorly standpoint that Trek has seen. Given the ultimate structure of DS9 however it didn't matter that much though that Brooks was a comparably "weak link." Sisko had the smallest proportion of lines/scripted dialogue out of any Trek captain (till Lorca). There were many episodes where Brooks basically just showed up to collect his paycheck and did a three-minute scene in his office about something trivial. They mostly only used Sisko when they needed to, and he could, when needed, hit it out of the park.

Still, I know Tony Todd auditioned for the role of Sisko, and I can't help but wonder what the role would have been like in his capable hands. He had only minor parts in Trek, but he was typically stellar in whatever show he was on. He didn't have the star power of Brooks, but he could have brought a lot to the role.

I really liked him in the role.
There were a few times where I did notice him doing a lousy job. But the one that come to mind is something in the turbo lift where he is supposed to be upset or angry or serious and he looks like he is about ready to crack up laughing.

But I'm a sucker for a handsome man too, so possibly I'm not the best judge either.

 

[eschaton]

I really liked him in the role.
There were a few times where I did notice him doing a lousy job. But the one that come to mind is something in the turbo lift where he is supposed to be upset or angry or serious and he looks like he is about ready to crack up laughing.

But I'm a sucker for a handsome man too, so possibly I'm not the best judge either.

Brooks was great in episodes where they put the focus on Sisko's relationship with his son, his father, Kassidy, etc. He was also a good at playing a captain, IMHO - he conveyed authority and strength much better than Bakula, Mulgrew, or even Shatner. When someone fucked up, you knew he would actually intimidate the hell out of them.

Where he was weaker in general I feel was some of the plotlines related to being the Emissary. Part of this is the writing just wasn't as universally great here, particularly in the later years when it seems like they lost the thread of what The Prophets really were.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

And if he could not find a role for himself in peace, we can pity him, but we shall not dismiss him.

Picard knew what was going on in his conversation with Sisko: the pain that comes with loss in war and the difficulty some have returning home from war. People in my family took years, sometimes decades, recovering from their experiences in the Philippines and Vietnam. It's insulting that people would dismiss this pain, or rank that pain in order to show one person as being morally superior to another. Star Trek is not alone in soft peddling complicated psychological issues, and Sisko's own psychological issues are no different. Like every "very special episode," "Emissary" at least recognized that they exist.

 

[Nakita Akita]

And if he could not find a role for himself in peace, we can pity him, but we shall not dismiss him.

Picard knew what was going on in his conversation with Sisko: the pain that comes with loss in war and the difficulty some have returning home from war. People in my family took years, sometimes decades, recovering from their experiences in the Philippines and Vietnam. It's insulting that people would dismiss this pain, or rank that pain in order to show one person as being morally superior to another. Star Trek is not alone in soft peddling complicated psychological issues, and Sisko's own psychological issues are no different. Like every "very special episode," "Emissary" at least recognized that they exist.

Sorry to hear about your family members.



To me in this scene it was like Sisko was blaming Picard for Wolf 359.
Like blaming the rape victim to me.
Just my perspective.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Sorry to hear about your family members.



To me in this scene it was like Sisko was blaming Picard for Wolf 359.
Like blaming the rape victim to me.
Just my perspective.

Sisko is also a victim. Picard was not raped. Literally.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Sisko is also a victim. Picard was not raped. Literally.

He was not sexually raped.
He was mind raped. And physically assaulted.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

He was not sexually raped.
He was mind raped. And physically assaulted.

He was a victim of war. You cannot make your argument without modifying the meaning of raped.

 

[Discofan]

He was a victim of war. You cannot make your argument without modifying the meaning of raped.

"Raped" has taken a wider meaning lately. That's why people often say "sexually raped" when referring to the original meaning. Words tend to be used in a figurative way after a time.

 

[Tosk]

But it comes down to the nuances and acting ability of Stewart and Brooks.

I agree.

So your contention therefore seems to be that when Sisko went to the Enterprise and met Picard, he was not angry acting?

No, that is not my contention at all. I referred to his demeanor as "simmering resentment". Sisko is angry at Picard in this scene, that is the whole point.

Some people act like Sisko was utterly outrageous and did something so bad to poor old Captain Picard that he just cannot be forgiven, even now twenty years later. (How's that for holding a grudge compared to what Sisko did?) Sisko exhibited displeasure with being face to face with Picard.

Yes, Sisko showed clearly that he was angry at Picard, but without ever actually saying so. He let his tone say what his words did not. But some of the descriptions of how he acted are just not present in the scene.

"lash out at Picard" (He doesn't lash out.)
"blaming a rape victim for the rape" (No he doesn't.)
"out of control" (No, he is not.)
"shouldn't have gone off on Picard" (He didn't.)
"accused him (Picard) of being in the pay of the borg" (He said no such thing. Every word he spoke in the scene was 100% true.)

Have y'all watched the scene again lately, or is it just the way you remember it from a long time ago? (Honest question.)

"Raped" has taken a wider meaning lately.

Maybe so, but it's not relevant. Sisko does not blame Picard for what happened to Picard. He is angry at him for what happened to Jennifer.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

"Raped" has taken a wider meaning lately. That's why people often say "sexually raped" when referring to the original meaning. Words tend to be used in a figurative way after a time.

That is speaking figuratively,which is why it needs to be modified with an adjective. Rape is sexual on its own: the use of reproductive and sensual aspects to harm, control, etc. It needs no modification. Rape does not need an adjective to be understood as sexual. There are other words to use to describe other attacks that are accurate: abuse, torture, assault, etc.

 

[jaime]

My two cents as a niner:

Avery Brooks was probably the second-weakest actor in the cast, with only Terry Farrell giving a worse performance. That said, it was in large part because so much of the main cast was absolutely stellar - by far the best cast overall from an actorly standpoint that Trek has seen. Given the ultimate structure of DS9 however it didn't matter that much though that Brooks was a comparably "weak link." Sisko had the smallest proportion of lines/scripted dialogue out of any Trek captain (till Lorca). There were many episodes where Brooks basically just showed up to collect his paycheck and did a three-minute scene in his office about something trivial. They mostly only used Sisko when they needed to, and he could, when needed, hit it out of the park.

Still, I know Tony Todd auditioned for the role of Sisko, and I can't help but wonder what the role would have been like in his capable hands. He had only minor parts in Trek, but he was typically stellar in whatever show he was on. He didn't have the star power of Brooks, but he could have brought a lot to the role.

Wasn’t Sid cast in the role till they realised how young he was, then they went to Brooks and gave Sid Bashir?

 

[jaime]

That is speaking figuratively,which is why it needs to be modified with an adjective. Rape is sexual on its own: the use of reproductive and sensual aspects to harm, control, etc. It needs no modification. Rape does not need an adjective to be understood as sexual. There are other words to use to describe other attacks that are accurate: abuse, torture, assault, etc.

Whilst I largely agree with you, there’s things like ‘rape of the natural world’ (thanks Ian Malcolm..) and such like that have been used in a broader sense, then in Trek there’s the Valeris Mind Rape Scene in VI (Spock. Erg.) só ignoring silly internet usage in games and the like, the assimilation process has been described as such, especially in Picards case before. Part of this is because Trek often deals in allegory...telepathic assault often standing in for sexual assault. Look at poor Troi, Riker, even O’Brien.

 

[Discofan]

That is speaking figuratively,which is why it needs to be modified with an adjective. Rape is sexual on its own: the use of reproductive and sensual aspects to harm, control, etc. It needs no modification. Rape does not need an adjective to be understood as sexual. There are other words to use to describe other attacks that are accurate: abuse, torture, assault, etc.

But none give as much a sense of violation and objectification as "rape".

 

[Discofan]

My two cents as a niner:

Avery Brooks was probably the second-weakest actor in the cast, with only Terry Farrell giving a worse performance....

You're definitely onto something there. I never cared for the way he played emotions, I find the "doggie breathing" when he's upset particularly inadequate and unconvincing.

 

[eschaton]

Wasn’t Sid cast in the role till they realised how young he was, then they went to Brooks and gave Sid Bashir?

IIRC he auditioned for the captain role, but I dunno if he was their first choice. SImilar to how Patrick Steward initially auditioned for the role of Data.

My understanding was the Bashir character was supposed to be Latino until Sid was cast, and then he was renamed. Which is a bit odd, because Sid could have just as easily played a Latino, but whatev.

 

[DonIago]

Patrick Stewart as Data...

...I can't see it.

 

[Tosk]

IIRC he auditioned for the captain role, but I dunno if he was their first choice.

That's correct AFAIK. By the time Tony Head and Peter Capaldi auditioned for Sisko, Siddig had already been moved over to the role of not-quite-Bashir-yet Amoros.