It's a ridiculous reaction because you clearly haven't even read the books yet! You're making judgments based on second-hand information.
Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!
- Thread starter Kathryn J.
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It's a ridiculous reaction because you clearly haven't even read the books yet! You're making judgments based on second-hand information.
Lynx:
1) VOYAGER WAS AN ENSEMBLE SHOW, as are/were all of the other Star Trek series. It wasn't based solely around Janeway, nor should it have been.
2) To date, the only major characters from the television series who are not part of the Voyager Relaunch novels are Janeway and Tuvok. Everyone else is still there, so this idea that 'more people would buy the novels if they were about the actual crew of Voyager' is a rather ludicrous one, because the novels ARE ABOUT THE ACTUAL CREW OF VOYAGER (sans two).
3) Janeway was effectively removed from playing an active role in the Voyager Relaunch by Christie Golden in Homecoming, The Further Shore, and the Spirit Walk duology; Kirsten Beyer included her in part of Full Circle because she needed to use that novel to build up to Janeway's eventual 'death' as seen in Before Dishonor, even though she wasn't going to rehash said 'death' within the pages of Full Circle itself, but Janeway was, at best, a periphery character throughout the entirety of her particpation in the storylines utilized and presented in FC, so, if you're mad about Janeway 'not being part of the novels', you really ought to be ranting and raving against Christie Golden as well as Kirsten Beyer (although I personally think that this whole mindset of being pissed off about Janeway being A) not part of the Voyager novels and B) 'dead' is stupid).
4) Janeway was replaced as Voyager's Captain by Chakotay, not some 'weak female copycat', but you apparently wouldn't know that since you've chosen to boycott the novels because they dont adhere to your viewpoint of what Voyager is, was, and should be. I should also note that Chakotay replacing Janeway as Voyager's Captain was done by Christie Golden in the Spirit Walk duology, and set up in Homecoming and The Further Shore.
5) As Kirsten Beyer has already said, Asfarah Eden replaced Chakotay as Voyager's Captain, and she is far from being a 'weak female copycat' of Janeway, but, again, you apparently wouldn't know that since you've chosen to boycott the Voyager novels because they don't adhere to your viewpoint of what Voyager is, was, and should be.
6) Presuming that you and those who share your views re: Janeway and Voyager represent a large or 'majority' portion of the Voyager fandom is the height of arrogance and, quite frankly, extremely insulting to me personally. As I noted in the version of this thread that was posted in Trek Lit, I consider myself to be a fan of Kathryn Janeway's character. My being supportive of the decisions made re: Janeway's character and what Kirsten Beyer has done in relation to said decisions IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM MAKES ME 'LESS' OF A FAN OF VOYAGER THAN YOU AND THE OTHERS WHO SHARE YOUR VIEWPOINTS RE: JANEWAY AND HER INCLUSION - OR THE LACK THEREOF - IN THE VOYAGER RELAUNCH NOVELS.
1) VOYAGER WAS AN ENSEMBLE SHOW, as are/were all of the other Star Trek series. It wasn't based solely around Janeway, nor should it have been.
2) To date, the only major characters from the television series who are not part of the Voyager Relaunch novels are Janeway and Tuvok. Everyone else is still there, so this idea that 'more people would buy the novels if they were about the actual crew of Voyager' is a rather ludicrous one, because the novels ARE ABOUT THE ACTUAL CREW OF VOYAGER (sans two).
3) Janeway was effectively removed from playing an active role in the Voyager Relaunch by Christie Golden in Homecoming, The Further Shore, and the Spirit Walk duology; Kirsten Beyer included her in part of Full Circle because she needed to use that novel to build up to Janeway's eventual 'death' as seen in Before Dishonor, even though she wasn't going to rehash said 'death' within the pages of Full Circle itself, but Janeway was, at best, a periphery character throughout the entirety of her particpation in the storylines utilized and presented in FC, so, if you're mad about Janeway 'not being part of the novels', you really ought to be ranting and raving against Christie Golden as well as Kirsten Beyer (although I personally think that this whole mindset of being pissed off about Janeway being A) not part of the Voyager novels and B) 'dead' is stupid).
4) Janeway was replaced as Voyager's Captain by Chakotay, not some 'weak female copycat', but you apparently wouldn't know that since you've chosen to boycott the novels because they dont adhere to your viewpoint of what Voyager is, was, and should be. I should also note that Chakotay replacing Janeway as Voyager's Captain was done by Christie Golden in the Spirit Walk duology, and set up in Homecoming and The Further Shore.
5) As Kirsten Beyer has already said, Asfarah Eden replaced Chakotay as Voyager's Captain, and she is far from being a 'weak female copycat' of Janeway, but, again, you apparently wouldn't know that since you've chosen to boycott the Voyager novels because they don't adhere to your viewpoint of what Voyager is, was, and should be.
6) Presuming that you and those who share your views re: Janeway and Voyager represent a large or 'majority' portion of the Voyager fandom is the height of arrogance and, quite frankly, extremely insulting to me personally. As I noted in the version of this thread that was posted in Trek Lit, I consider myself to be a fan of Kathryn Janeway's character. My being supportive of the decisions made re: Janeway's character and what Kirsten Beyer has done in relation to said decisions IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM MAKES ME 'LESS' OF A FAN OF VOYAGER THAN YOU AND THE OTHERS WHO SHARE YOUR VIEWPOINTS RE: JANEWAY AND HER INCLUSION - OR THE LACK THEREOF - IN THE VOYAGER RELAUNCH NOVELS.
To CoveSanta, who said that online petitions are a worthless means of getting attention,that's not true. Online petitions do work, as has been proven by countless successful efforts over the years. The only way it doesn't work is if someone just shakes their head and says "It's not worth even trying.."
You'll never accomplish anything if you don't try. The online petition is only one part of what the group is trying to do, there are also letter writing campaigns to send mail to the publishers through the postal service.
It may seem like in the world today, something like this isn't that big of a deal but to some of us, it's worth taking a moment of our time to stand up and show support for the idea. It really doesn't take more than a minute or two to sign, it doesn't take more than a few minutes to print a letter and place it into an addressed envelope and stick a stamp on it.
I'm doing this because it's something I'd like to see. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that the novel-verse books, without Kathryn Janeway.. are not Voyager.
Instead of Fleet Captain Eden leading things.. put Admiral Janeway in her place. Leave Chakotay as Captain of Voyager.. and continue with the characters and people from the series who those of us who are fans loved to start with!
You'll never accomplish anything if you don't try. The online petition is only one part of what the group is trying to do, there are also letter writing campaigns to send mail to the publishers through the postal service.
It may seem like in the world today, something like this isn't that big of a deal but to some of us, it's worth taking a moment of our time to stand up and show support for the idea. It really doesn't take more than a minute or two to sign, it doesn't take more than a few minutes to print a letter and place it into an addressed envelope and stick a stamp on it.
I'm doing this because it's something I'd like to see. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that the novel-verse books, without Kathryn Janeway.. are not Voyager.
Instead of Fleet Captain Eden leading things.. put Admiral Janeway in her place. Leave Chakotay as Captain of Voyager.. and continue with the characters and people from the series who those of us who are fans loved to start with!
Therin makes a great point! I know I would happily buy a 'new' novel series based on that concept where Admiral Janeway is still alive.
Really that's what we're asking for (at least from my point of view)
I know some people didn't like Janeway. And that's perfectly fine with me really.. what I don't like is the attitude that killing a major canon character off in such a pointless fashion (and again, that's my opinion where I state it was pointless and may not be what others think).
I have continued to read the novels without her, in the hope that because she was taken into the Q Continuum that she WOULD indeed make her return at some point in the storyline which had not yet been reached.
I've joined into this movement because we've now had several novels without her and I find them disappointing and just.. off. It just doesn't feel like Voyager without Kathryn Janeway!
I respectfully disagree and not just because I adore Janeway and she's one of my childhood heroes. Simply put, Janeway is one of the few characters that could not be thrown out to still have Voyager work. Kirsten Beyer is doing a good job w/o Janeway and honestly, the books have continued better than I originally thought they would however, Janeway was the unifying presence for the Voyager crew. No character can replace her presence or dynamic. The books since her demise in some ways read like it's a large away mission and we're waiting for her to magically appear on the next page. There is a feeling of a lost element and that element is Janeway. No Janeway= no Voyager.
I've talked to others who didn't care for Mulgrew's performance. I adore her as well. But all I can say is look as Ms. Bujold's work (the original casted Janeway) and I think you may appreciate Mulgrew a little.
Very well put .. and again, I freely admit to being another fan who falls into the category of "Adoring Janeway / Mulgrew Fans".
But I also respect that some people didn't like her.
What I don't like is being ridiculed or trolled by those who don't like her for saying that I do. But I'm willing to accept that sort of treatment from more ill-mannered trek fans because I believe that standing up and saying "Star Trek Voyager is NOT Star Trek Voyager without Kathryn Janeway as part of the stories."
It's a sad fact but true non-the less, a large number of Janeway supporters probably won't speak up simple because they don't feel like dealing with the rude response some people feel that being online and on the internet allows them to make.
I'll take it. Make fun, be rude as you want. We're not giving up.
Voyager without Janeway.. is not Voyager and killing her off was wrong.
If that is all you need then you should be glad to have Janeway back and you can still have your memories and fan fiction.
But if the "customer" wants something else, they are well within their rights to ask for what that want and continue to ask until they get it. These readers want her back. If these writers don't want to bring her back then they should get someone else that will.
Trip was brought back in the books, Sisko is back, Kirk was brought back in Shatner's books, Data's back in STOnline and The Needs of the Many, and Spock was brought back (considered by most with very positive results), without people having a fit about it. Only when KJ's fans want HER back (and there are many, many) do some Trekkers start to object on some obscure principle, and don't tell me it isn't because of her gender! Makes me wonder what is the matter, haven't people heard of the Trek philosophy of IDIC!?! We're supposed to be positive in Trek, but it doesn't seem that way now. Well, KJ's fans are not going away, in fact the numbers are growing, and we know it is very possible to bring her back. Just someone has to decide to (like her "death") and it will happen, and then Voyager in Trek lit will be really Voyager again, with it's soul intact, not just sort of Voyager the way it is now. Bring her back, we know she lives!
That's not how fiction works.
I wish that some of the comments here were not so harsh towards Voyager and Janeway. Granted, the series had its flaws, but so does every television series. Nothing is ever perfect.
Janeway had her strengths and weaknesses, but that is what made her human. It is what made Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Archer and every other Starfleet captain human. I don't think it's right for there to be bias against Janeway simply because she was a woman; we should be beyond that kind of prejudice now in our society.
We were given an open end at the end of "Before Dishonor", which still leaves the possibility for Janeway to return. My view on that is, if it can be done plausibly and the story be logical, then bring Janeway back. I've been reading the latest Voyager novels, and they do not have the same feel that the show did without Janeway present. I'm surprised that they would not have kept her around for the position of Fleet Admiral; that would have been a great role for her.
Janeway had her strengths and weaknesses, but that is what made her human. It is what made Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Archer and every other Starfleet captain human. I don't think it's right for there to be bias against Janeway simply because she was a woman; we should be beyond that kind of prejudice now in our society.
We were given an open end at the end of "Before Dishonor", which still leaves the possibility for Janeway to return. My view on that is, if it can be done plausibly and the story be logical, then bring Janeway back. I've been reading the latest Voyager novels, and they do not have the same feel that the show did without Janeway present. I'm surprised that they would not have kept her around for the position of Fleet Admiral; that would have been a great role for her.
LOL that is exactly how fiction works, all you have to do for a plot is ask the right question.
You're dreaming. Paramount and CBS already know, from decades of tie-in sales - that less than 1% of the viewing audience buy the tie-in novels. Saying "many Voyager fans have already turned their backs" is incorrect; up to 99% of VOY viewers have never read a VOY novel.
Firstly, sales of the Relaunch books are better than the early days of numbered VOY and DS9 novels which, we were told, were Pocket's worst-selling lines. As Christie Golden's novels began showing better sales figures, she became custodian of the Relaunch. Even though those four books were panned by many readers, the sales figures were excellent, and the books went into multiple reprints.
Secondly, "many" of the fans you are talking about told us - right here - that, apart from "Mosaic", they never used to read the old VOY novels anyway, preferring free fanfics they can download to any licensed VOY novels they have to pay for. So those who have blackbanned the licensed tie-ins are actually only a handful of that 1% of the viewing audience.
In the reverse of all that, the Kirsten Beyer VOY novels are selling very well, having gained new readers: ST fans who read other ST novels but not VOY novels, plus other fans curious about the "death of Janeway" storyline. If the death-of-Janeway-aftermath books were selling worse than Golden's, we wouldn't be seeing more and more books being commissioned to Kirsten Beyer.
Maybe they weren't. But they are now, and will probably go buy a few boxed sets of DVDs to see what they missed. Win/win for CBS. New fans are needed once all the older fans have bought everything they need.
And they are. I hear they are only missing Janeway and Tuvok at the moment. Tuvok has spun-off into "Titan", where he and his wife are popular, valued characters.
The Shatner books, Trek Online and enve the JJ Verse/Countdown comics are NOT part of Trek Lit continuity. Sisko was NEVER dead and said that he would return...how many times do you people need to be told that! Those characters that were killed remain dead in TrekLit. Kirk...STILL DEAD. Data...STILL DEAD. Conversely, Janeway IS ALIVE in the same Trek Online Universe with Data.
How about this...push Kate Mulgrew to write her own novels with Admiral Janeway so that, like Shatner, they can exist outside of the regular timeline and the rest of us can go on enjoying her not being a part of mainline Trek Lit. But for fraks sake...stop pretending like this is some kind of conspiracy. Let characters that die stay dead. Spock's resurrection was miraculous precisely because it never happens.
In fact, feisty Admiral Janeway made regular appearances in the "A Time..." maxi-series: nine novels covering the missing TNG years between "Insurrection" and "Nemesis".
But that isn't what some Janeway fans wanted. They seemingly wanted her busted back to captain, just like the movies did to Admiral Kirk (twice) - so she could keep her trusty Voyager crew together.
And so is Admiral Janeway, so your point is...?
So, Admiral Janeway somehow gets back a mortal body from Lady Q, asks for a demotion and coerces all of her old crew to get back on that ship with her? Didn't I see that story as the climax to a telemovie called "Rescue from Gilligan's Island"
You realize that the ONLY people that ever mention the fact that Janeway was a woman are her fans. Her detractors never even mention her gender. What's worse, her fans are so obsessed with her gender that they think that she should be exempt from any of the dangers that her male colleagues face. In effect they want her protected BECAUSE she is a woman.
I'll admit that I haven't read the "A Time to.." series, so I can't say anything in that respect, but what I have read of Admiral Janeway's presence in the novels before her death was great. I don't think she needs to be busted back down to Captain, I was simply saying that it would have been a great opportunity to use her character in her role as an Admiral.
I think that that is a matter of opinion. I am a Janeway fan I never really saw a bias until recently, which is why I say that it is ridiculous. I am not trying to protect her because of her gender, I am simply saying that it should not be a dividing line between her and the other male captains of Star Trek.
What bias have you seen recently? How is Janeway being dead different than what's been done to male characters. The only character to ever be resurrected from the dead is Spock. It was considered miraculous because it was unique. Kirk...dead and buried on Veridian III.
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