Shuttlebay One

[sbk1234]

Actually, I think it could have made sense to evacuate as many people from the saucer before it crash lands, therefore reducing the risk to people's safety as much as they could. Unless of course there was damage to the main shuttlebay that prevented their using it...

 

[CaptainSpirk]

Using the bay would have made no sense in that situation, the inside was obviously trashed during the saucer's landing. Why would they clean it up to be used by shuttles when they could use the saucer itself as a landing pad?
And for the crew it really doesn't make much of a difference if they walk to the shuttlebay or up to deck 1 to climb out of the observation lounge windows.

The saucer didn't have a landing pad. It crashed awkwardly against rocks and that. It didn't have landing struts like Voyager, but the saucer was damaged from the firefight against the Klingons and its escape from the warp core breach.

Climbing out of the windows might be considered hazardous.

While that would have made sense, this photo would appear to suggest otherwise:

I think there was one scene where Data finds Spot at the end that might have been in Shuttlebay One or was that in one of the Cargo Bays?

 

[CaptainSpirk]

Actually, I think it could have made sense to evacuate as many people from the saucer before it crash lands, therefore reducing the risk to people's safety as much as they could. Unless of course there was damage to the main shuttlebay that prevented their using it...

True. That's what the escape pods are for. I guess it was too dangerous to use the escape pods in that situation.

 

[Richard Baker]

The giant saucer section was hit by the shock wave from the warp core breach and thrown violently- not too sure a small escape pod would have been too safe.

For me not being able to see the inside of one of the most interesting parts of the ship was very disappointing. If not in the series surely they could have done something for the movie, but then again this is a movie which recycled the KBoP explosion from the movie just before this one just to save a few bucks.

 

[Tomalak]

I loved that shot at the end of Generations - those shuttles landed on the saucer look great. It would have been even cooler with the shuttlebay door open and matted in.

 

[Timo]

It would be odd for the saucertop to have fewer than three dozen nice and comfortable hatches allowing the crew to climb up (or, more probably, ride up on a lift). Even Kirk's little tub had those in ST:TMP. If landing is a supposed emergency maneuver Starfleet planned for, then exiting the saucer would also be preplanned. Hopefully with plenty of options other than going through a single giant room littered by volatile auxiliary spacecraft!

Still, way cool, yes. And a bit odd if the shuttles in that bay were all lost in the crash, since surely securing them should be more or less trivial (they have adjustable gravity and all). But from ST:ID we learn that Starfleet isn't any good at securing its shuttles...

We don't get to see the registries on those evacuation shuttles very well. Are any of them from the E-D? Was that shuttle that picked up Picard from the E-D (the model has that registry, but it's difficult to read in the actual movie)? Or did the other starships provide all that?

(Curious how low in detail that saucertop matte is. We don't see any hint of the roof hatches of Shuttlebay One, supposedly there because both the shooting models had them in good evidence. We don't see the warning graphics around the phaser strip. The transporter antennas don't have much in the way of gridding. Etc. But the matte gets the job done.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Verteron]

Perhaps the door was damaged in the landing and couldn't be raised. There was after all, extensive structural damage to the saucer, including some of the internal struts being bent or broken. It looks fine from the outside but there could be fallen debris behind it, or perhaps the motors needed to move it have just been destroyed.

They were concentrating on getting the people off first, I imagine the specialist salvage crews were arriving later.

 

[Richard Baker]

The top of the main hangar bay is marked with explosive blow out doors so the ship can be evacuated even if the main door is jammed shut. I guess those went off line like the core ejection safety...

I assumed those shuttles were from the ships in orbit above. Most crew probably beamed up, but there were probably some things which needed special handling with a shuttle. (IIRC all that Gold pressed latinum in the captain's vault cannot be moved by transporter)

 

[Tomalak]

The shuttle that rescues Picard is a bit of an oddity - it's the Galileo from TFF only with TNG Type-6 styling. Is it the cargo shuttle from the TNG TM?

 

[Timo]

The top of the main hangar bay is marked with explosive blow out doors so the ship can be evacuated even if the main door is jammed shut. I guess those went off line like the core ejection safety...

The funny thing is, the matte painting omits the outline of those top doors, even when the shooting models both have it.

I assumed those shuttles were from the ships in orbit above. Most crew probably beamed up, but there were probably some things which needed special handling with a shuttle. (IIRC all that Gold pressed latinum in the captain's vault cannot be moved by transporter)

Latinum transports just fine - in the DS9 pilot, Odo pretended to be a bag full of latinum winnings and the Cardassians transported him to their ship.

Indeed, it's very difficult to find references to stuff that can't be transported per se. In Kasidy Yates' introductory scene, her outdated transporters can't handle some sort of sensitive biochemical without ruining it, but modern transporters easily can. And then there's that stuff from "The Most Toys" that tends to blow up no matter what you do to it. And that's about it. It's not even as if special types of matter require special settings for the transporter: live people can hide inside cargo crates and be transported as cargo ("Dagger of the Mind"), antimatter can be transported unawares ("Peak Performance"), etc.

The shuttle that rescues Picard is a bit of an oddity - it's the Galileo from TFF only with TNG Type-6 styling. Is it the cargo shuttle from the TNG TM?

I'd like for that Type 9 cargo shuttle to look like it does in the Tech Manual - chiefly, so that it could be as large as suggested.

Then again, the "Type X" format is incredibly annoying. Surely there must be more than a dozen types of shuttle in Starfleet history, or indeed in use during the era where we meet Types 6 through 18? No reason why Starfleet couldn't operate a longer version of Type 6, with slightly different engines and all. But it really shouldn't have to be Type 6.2 or somesuch.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Richard Baker]

Odo did not turn into gold pressed latinum, he imitated it.
From what I recall, and it may have been in a novel though, the reason gold pressed latinum was chosen for Ferengi currency was that it has a very weird atomic structure which transporters could not scan properly or replicators could not duplicate. It makes sense to me- why use something as a foundation for your economy that could be created by the ton?
I am trying to remember if we ever saw Morn use a transporter when he had that bank heist in his digestive tract...

 

[Tomalak]

But the Cardassians didn't know he was Odo! That's the point, they didn't think anything of beaming with latinum.

 

[Timo]

Onscreen, we haven't heard of limitations in beaming GPL. Moreover, we haven't heard of limitations in replicating the stuff. For all we know, it's easily replicable - but doing so would be akin to xeroxing hundred-dollar bills. It would be so much worthless paper/alien metal because the value is abstract and coded into each bill in writing / brick, strip and slip in chemical form. For small transactions, Quark would taste the GPL, as seen: if the taste is in the right ballpark, it's not a forgery or at least can be passed on to other Ferengi, and the exact code need not be read. But for larger transactions, Quark carefully scans whether the brick indeed is unique or a worthless identical twin to an existing brick.

I really wonder whether the E-D saucer could have contained substances that couldn't take transporting but would still be useful after the crash. In novels, victims of injury are sometimes considered too unstable to be transported, but that's not a well-founded canon concept; nevertheless, many of those shuttles might have been for medevac, or for delivering teams of medics complete with treatment facilities and gear. While I'd imagine beaming down a surgery tent would be faster, a dedicated surgery shuttle would not need assembly on the spot...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

Doesn't Picard say that casualties were light? Except for the dead helmsman presumably...

The big executive shuttle is interesting. It would hardly be needed to bring up personnel, so a mobile sickbay would be a good bet.

Is it the Shatnerverse novel "The Return" that deals with the aftermath, principally the removal of every last scrap of Enterprise wreckage lest it be found some time by the population of Veridian IV? The shuttles could be valuable for that kind of job.

Or else those were the only usable ones removed from the shuttlebay before it was shuttered again. In TNG they convert cargo and shuttlebays into medical triage areas. Crusher could have done something similar here, using the shuttles themselves to provide power for her equipment.

 

[Squiggy]

It's stupid. Why have the main shuttlebay if you're not going to show it? From the blueprints, it would have been awesome to have seen the full set. Who cares about money. Hollywood's got plenty.

Not that much. It was huge and beyond the means of late 80s/early 90s fx.
ETA: The Enterprise 3D Construction Project was going to be something special, but I think he got spooked by CBS/P's litigiousness last year.

https://www.facebook.com/enterprise3dproject
https://twitter.com/enterprise3dprj

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

In "Emissary", Odo wasn't a bag full of latinum, he was just a bag. Quark specifically asks one of his minions to grab something for the Cardassians to but their winning into, and one of the waiters hands him a bag.

Also, in "Deja Q", a "suicidal" Q asks the turbolift to take him to the main shuttlebay, which the lift correctly tells him is on deck 4. Makes sense to steal one from there, since all the main action is down in 2/3. Perhaps Jake Kurland stole his shuttle from the same place in "Coming of Age".

DS9 followed the TNG rule - we never really saw the insides of their landing bays besides a small Runabout launch sequence from the pilot, and I think only once did we see the inside of a bay (that wasn't through the window of a docked ship) when a Romulan diplomat came to town. And by the time Voyager rolled around, they at least had the good sense to have big set extensions built to pretend like they had not one, but TWO cavernous shuttlebays crammed into the secondary hull.

Only with Enterprise did they have the sense to build a full shuttlepod bay set, which went very far to show how you could get into and out of the pod through the top or sides, depending on how you felt that day.

Mark

 

[Timo]

In "Emissary", Odo wasn't a bag full of latinum, he was just a bag. Quark specifically asks one of his minions to grab something for the Cardassians to but their winning into, and one of the waiters hands him a bag.

Umm, no. Odo was both the bag and the latinum ultimately - when he morphs back, there's no latinum in the bag. (I imagine the Cardassians were rather annoyed at that!)

That is, odds are that this early and unskilled Odo wasn't "really" latinum. Or a bag. He was just weight and shape, to fool the Cardassians into thinking they had a bag full of latinum. But the point is that the Cardassians thought that there was nothing wrong with transporting a bag full of latinum.

Also, in "Deja Q", a "suicidal" Q asks the turbolift to take him to the main shuttlebay, which the lift correctly tells him is on deck 4. Makes sense to steal one from there, since all the main action is down in 2/3. Perhaps Jake Kurland stole his shuttle from the same place in "Coming of Age".

Good points. Although Q would wish to steal something nobody would notice missing, thus something from amidst a great many and lots of hassle - while Jake would succeed because he had authority (for his ongoing flight training) and abused it, something perhaps best accomplished when there aren't too many people around.

DS9 followed the TNG rule - we never really saw the insides of their landing bays besides a small Runabout launch sequence from the pilot, and I think only once did we see the inside of a bay (that wasn't through the window of a docked ship) when a Romulan diplomat came to town.

Yup, still expensive to fake the interior.

And by the time Voyager rolled around, they at least had the good sense to have big set extensions built to pretend like they had not one, but TWO cavernous shuttlebays crammed into the secondary hull.

...But at this time, they did have the means of CGI-faking it all, and often did.

Only with Enterprise did they have the sense to build a full shuttlepod bay set, which went very far to show how you could get into and out of the pod through the top or sides, depending on how you felt that day.

...What you couldn't do even if you wanted was go straight to decon without endangering the people who worked on the exteriors of the craft. Although I guess contaminated landing parties would also mean contaminated shuttle exteriors. But sterilizing the outer hides of the shuttle should be a breeze (of plasma), while doing the same to people appeared to require the gentle touch of the decon gel.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Mmm... Gentle touch... Almost forgot that benefit of the 2150s.

Also:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01/emissary188.jpg

In the episode the bag is seen being loaded by his new owners, and Odo clearly leaves the latinum behind after being stuffed into the locker. Agreed on all other points, though!

 

[Galileo7]

If you're wondering what it might have looked like, someone did a recreation based on the blueprints using the Unreal Engine and put it on YouTube. It's pretty impressive. Shuttlebay is from 1:40 onwards, also some of the upper decks, an escape pod, the bridge and observation lounge are shown later on in the clip.

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Shuttle Bay One would have been an impressive Set.

 

[cgervasi]

It's pretty impressive. Shuttlebay is from 1:40 onwards, also some of the upper decks, an escape pod, the bridge and observation lounge are shown later on in the clip.

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I have seen this. It's impressive. It doesn't make any sense to me, though. It shows the shuttle bay appearing to 100s of meters wide, making it consistent with the middle decks of the saucer. It seems like the entire diameter at that point would be less than 100 meters, leaving no room for what's shown.