Should Wesley have been kicked out of the Academy?

[Farscape One]

While I still think there is some truth in the reason why Locarno was not Paris for VOY (royalties for creating the character), I do agree that at the core, Tom and Nick are two very different people because of one trait.

Redemption. Nick was irredeemable because he used his squad so he can leave the Academy in a blaze of glory. And he got everyone to lie about it. It's only due to Wesley that he ended up confessing. He didn't feel remorse for what he did. He was only sorry he got caught.

Tom, on the other hand, was redeemable because despite him lying at first, he came forward on his own and confessed to what he did. And as far as we know, he didn't involve others in his coverup. He WAS sorry and felt remorse for what he did, which is why he confessed.

 

[Rahul]

While I still think there is some truth in the reason why Locarno was not Paris for VOY (royalties for creating the character), I do agree that at the core, Tom and Nick are two very different people because of one trait.

Redemption. Nick was irredeemable because he used his squad so he can leave the Academy in a blaze of glory. And he got everyone to lie about it. It's only due to Wesley that he ended up confessing. He didn't feel remorse for what he did. He was only sorry he got caught.

Tom, on the other hand, was redeemable because despite him lying at first, he came forward on his own and confessed to what he did. And as far as we know, he didn't involve others in his coverup. He WAS sorry and felt remorse for what he did, which is why he confessed.

I agree they're slightly different characters. But I think Locarno is the fundamentally more interesting one. He was clearly shook by the results. And he was a clear antagonist, trying to lie and pressure others to get through.

But! He still had his redemption arc. After being caught, in absolute failure - he then stood up & protectes his friend. Taking the fall, so the others could continue to follow their dreams. He didn't need to do that.

Tom Paris is still one of my favourite characters. But he's a kind of white-washed version. The trope-y gruff character with a dark past, that isn't actually that dark , to not scare too many viewers away...

 

[CoveTom]

One of the Voyager people -- maybe Jeri Taylor? -- claimed that the royalty issue had nothing to do with it, but that the real reason they ultimately chose not to go with Locarno was what's being discussed here -- that they thought he was too irredeemable a character. I don't know which reason is actually true, but I can see that argument coming up amongst the creators.

 

[MurphyCooper]

If a similar thing happened in the military in real life (just using the US military as an example) where some Air Force or Navy Cadets covered up an accident that lead the death of one of their own, all of them would have been booted and given criminal charges for attempting to cover it up.

Perhaps Wesley would have gotten a lighter sentence, but he would have served time for that mistake after being kicked out. After all, Wesley did come forward about it - he was still involved. I look at Starfleet like a military organization. What kind of example are they setting, if the ones that tried to cover up the death of one of their own walk away with a slap on the wrist? I think they'd have no tolerance for it. When you are in Starfleet, you represent the Federation, and your world with the best you can bring to the table.

 

[fireproof78]

Wesley and his mates should have been charged.

Just look at how Kirk was treated when he was thought to have caused a death on purpose.

 

[CoveTom]

Wesley and his mates should have been charged.

Just look at how Kirk was treated when he was thought to have caused a death on purpose.

But no one accused Wesley or the other cadets of causing a death on purpose. In "Court Martial," Kirk was accused of straight-up deliberate murder. Wesley and the cadets did something stupid and reckless that resulted in a death, but they certainly never intended for that death to occur.

 

[Farscape One]

It was, at the least, obstruction of an investigation because they covered things up.

They all should have been expelled. And can be charged with crimes, like obstruction. This set a bad example for the rest of the cadets at the Academy.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If he had been kicked out, his eventually joining the Travellers could have followed up his trying/considering other things than Starfleet to see what fit - perhaps a mercenary group, or a merchant ship - rather than deciding against Starfleet and for the only other choice he'd thus far considered.

 

[The Wormhole]

But no one accused Wesley or the other cadets of causing a death on purpose. In "Court Martial," Kirk was accused of straight-up deliberate murder. Wesley and the cadets did something stupid and reckless that resulted in a death, but they certainly never intended for that death to occur.

So they get charged with manslaughter instead of murder.

 

[fireproof78]

But no one accused Wesley or the other cadets of causing a death on purpose. In "Court Martial," Kirk was accused of straight-up deliberate murder. Wesley and the cadets did something stupid and reckless that resulted in a death, but they certainly never intended for that death to occur.

It's culpable negligence.

 

[SatrianiRules]

Aye, I thought it was a nice scene. Picard laying out exactly how close they all came to expulsion really sells the weight of what they did and why Locarno’s sacrifice matters. I just wish we’d actually seen his plea to save his friends on screen.

I always wondered why they didn't use the Locarno character in Voyager instead of changing the character to Tom Paris (which is essentially what they did)....would have been a nice bridge between the two series and could have opened up some great storylines for Locarno...

 

[1001001]

I always wondered why they didn't use the Locarno character in Voyager instead of changing the character to Tom Paris (which is essentially what they did)....would have been a nice bridge between the two series and could have opened up some great storylines for Locarno...

Because they would have had to pay royalties to the writer of The First Duty for every Voyager episode he was in.

 

[SatrianiRules]

Because they would have had to pay royalties to the writer of The First Duty for every Voyager episode he was in.

is that really the reason? or am i being obtuse?

 

[Farscape One]

It's one reason. Another is that Paris is a more redeemable character, at his core, than Locarno.

 

[Dukhat]

It's one reason. Another is that Paris is a more redeemable character, at his core, than Locarno.

I dunno. Despite this prevailing belief, at their core they really are the exact same character. If they had actually used Locarno, then we would have seen him redeeming himself, not Paris.

 

[1001001]

is that really the reason? or am i being obtuse?

Yes that is the reason.

 

[Farscape One]

I dunno. Despite this prevailing belief, at their core they really are the exact same character. If they had actually used Locarno, then we would have seen him redeeming himself, not Paris.

Locarno covered up the accident that got a cadet under his command killed, and had other members of his squad do the same. He didn't come forward... he was forced to admit what happened. He didn't have remorse, he was only sorry he got caught. Plus, he was trying to shift the blame on Albert's death on Albert himself... definitely a lot of ego here, too. Especially considering he was in command, and if he knew one of his cadets possibly couldn't handle the maneuver, he shouldn't have tried to do it, never mind the fact it was banned already. He wanted to graduate in a blaze of glory.

Paris covered up an accident that got others killed. He did it on his own (as far as we know), but he came forward on his own and admitted his guilt. He had remorse, otherwise he likely would have gotten off with no one being the wiser.

Locarno: hubris. Paris: humility. The latter is definitely far more likeable and more redemptive than the former.

 

[fireproof78]

I dunno. Despite this prevailing belief, at their core they really are the exact same character. If they had actually used Locarno, then we would have seen him redeeming himself, not Paris.

I don't think people believe he was redeemable.

 

[SatrianiRules]

all the more reason to use Locarno, much longer journey to Redemption, might have been interesting...and in the end Locarno showed selflessness to his classmates by insisting that everything was his idea and that they should not be punished for HIS actions.

 

[fireproof78]

all the more reason to use Locarno, much longer journey to Redemption, might have been interesting

Voyager wouldn't have used it well. Hell, Voyager barely used the tension between Paris and Chakotay and swept it under the rug.

Add in that if people think a character is irredeemable they won't expect growth but be cynical towards them.