Do Saru's ganglia count as a character witness?
Should Tyler be charged with Dr. Culber's murder?
- Thread starter Tuvix5675
- Start date
Probably for the same reason they knowingly made a murderous mirror universe tyrant the captain of their ship right after getting rid of the last mirror captain...
Mind control tends to give folks a pass in ST
He's not "impersonating" if he doesn't know he's impersonating. If he thinks he's Ash Tyler, that takes impersonation out of the equation. Or makes it less clear-cut.
After Culber told Ash "You're not you", Ash could be in denial because he still thinks he is Ash but is afraid to find out otherwise. He thinks he's someone but is afraid to find out if he's wrong. I'd say he was either in denial or delusional.
WE know that, but I'd think a Starfleet review board would probably want to make sure.
No intent - when he did that, he thought he was Ash Tyler, so there was no deception.
Edit: dammit, ninja'd
If V'oq was driving the skin-suit at that moment, Tyler wouldn't be responsible. However, he is culpable if he knew V'oq was fighting for the steering wheel and didn't let anyone know.
I don't think he did. He thought he was losing it, crazy flashbacks and such. But until he confronted himself, there was a divide there. I don't think he knew he killed him, he looked lost when asked where he was. You could see the switch from one to the other. Damned well acted
I don't think it is that clear cut. It is not really two separate persons, it is just one person suffering from multiple personality disorder.
if the character survives long enough for that to happen, i hope there's some justice for culber. however, with so many mirror universe shenanigans to sweep under the rug as "classified", the idea of tyler/voq continuing aboard discovery as starfleet's first (secret) klingon officer seems unlikely. not everything on discovery can be marked top secret as a way of skipping around continuity, i'm sure the writers understand this and tyler's future could be... well, brief. i don't see the character continuing on as if nothing happened.
Voq willingly underwent the transformation into Tyler. Isn't that relevant as well?
For Voq, who seems to be dead. Not for Tyler, who was a real person and is now his own person, not Voq. I think we are seeing why Klingons never went mind swap again, even if they reused the body modifications.
It is. But what matters most, I'd think, is: who does he think he is whenever he's doing something. Tyler was grafted onto Voq, so as long as there's some Tyler, he's not entirely Voq. And then it comes down to which personality is in control at the time of any action.
Tyler didn't ask (or agree) to be made part of Voq even if that's what Voq wanted (or agreed to).
I think if Tyler isn't being mentally suppressed and he believes he's Tyler while he's committing criminal acts and is in his "right" state of mind, then Tyler should be charged with whatever he does.
If it's all Voq, then Voq should be mentally removed from the body or any sign of Voq's synapses should be eliminated. If the technology exists to remove Voq from Ash and be able to try Voq separately, then that's what should be done. I don't think they're there yet, technologically, so removing Voq's synapses seems more likely. It looks like L'Rell did that but it only looks that way, so who knows if it actually is the case (probably not).
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Ah. Once again, I get caught out for using the Cliffs Notes. I never saw the scene in question.
And the fact that the real Tyler is dead and the one we've been seeing is only a copy...what of that?
Oh well. In response to the original question: Yes, Tyler should be charged. Whether or not he should be found guilty is another matter. They shouldn't just let him walk away scot-free, there's got to be some consequences for what he's done.
I mean, there's some real world analogues to things like this, amirite? To wit:
- A person who is hypnotized into committing murder and then forgets what they've done when they come out of the trance. That's not a defense, is it?
- Being drunk definitely is not.
- Neither is multiple personality disorder.
No. Voq has been brainwashed to think he is Ash Tyler. He is no more dead than a person suffering from a delusion that he is Napoleon is dead.
Original Tyler is dead. Voq is not the same person any more than a person suffering from delusion that they're Napoleon is the real Napoleon.
Yeah, he was confused and when Culber said something his whole face changed and he just reacted. When later asked why he was late, he had this confused look as if he could not recall and he shook his head and said "No excuse sir".
That is a sticky issue, this Ash is still a person, but not the one who carried out the crimes. He is a victim really. In Trek, this is pretty much mind control. But look at how they treated the 2nd spock. He was just a copy, and imperfect one lacking memories at that.
No Voq is dead, The Ash persona is not, they did not just brainwash him, they stuck another persons mind in his head.
The First tyler is dead, but this copy is not. Just as the 2nd Spock got to be treated like the real spock.
In Search for Spock? He was not a copy. He was rejuvenated original Spock suffering from amnesia.
