Fourthed. I just love when I'm having my mind read.
Hmm, seeing as Kira and Dax are two of my favorite Trek characters, I htink that's unlikely.
You know it to be true.
Should they bring back Janeway?
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Fourthed. I just love when I'm having my mind read.
Hmm, seeing as Kira and Dax are two of my favorite Trek characters, I htink that's unlikely.
You know it to be true.
Good question. Kirk was just as close to (if not closer to) his crew as Janeway. He was pretty much the glue that held that crew together, imo.
Ok, I'm sorry but I find that incredibly insulting as a guy who wasn't a big fan of Janeway ( I didn't hate her, but I liked alot of the other characters better). And just so you know, I'm a huge Buffy fan, one of my favorite Lost characters is Kate, I really like Mary Louise Parker on Weeds, and my favorite Doctor Who companions are Sarah Jane, Rose, and Martha.
A very wrong opinion at that...
I'm a male and I loved Kira, both Daxes, Ro, and even Torres and Seven.
Janeway, not so much.
That said, I'm already on record as saying that offing Janeway would not have been my first choice, but I applauded Pocket for making such a ballsy decision. I never really cared for the VOY lit when she was alive, but I'm enjoying the VOY lit more than I ever have without her.
Janeway, not so much.
That said, I'm already on record as saying that offing Janeway would not have been my first choice, but I applauded Pocket for making such a ballsy decision. I never really cared for the VOY lit when she was alive, but I'm enjoying the VOY lit more than I ever have without her.
i'm a bloke. my favourite TV characters include Jadzia Dax and Kira Nerys, Buffy Summers, Xena, Cameron amd Sarah Connor from TSCC, Donna Noble, Sydney Bristow and Olivia Dunham.
my favourite characters from non-TV media include Lady Jaye and Scarlett from GI Joe, Padme from Star Wars, Sonya Gomez in SCE and Breanna Stockard in the Dale Brown's Dreamland novels
so don't be telling me i don't like strong women.
my favourite characters from non-TV media include Lady Jaye and Scarlett from GI Joe, Padme from Star Wars, Sonya Gomez in SCE and Breanna Stockard in the Dale Brown's Dreamland novels
so don't be telling me i don't like strong women.
That's me--mindreader par excellence! 
I just notice that many who argue against bringing Janeway back, for whatever expressed reason, often admit along the way that they dislike the character and Voyager, as well. That makes me wonder if their stated reason--keeping the story line, exploring the reality of death, or not reusing the reset button, etc.--is just hiding the real reason, that that they dislike Janeway and are happy she's gone.
I wonder if they would care so much if this hadn't been rolled up into the TNG/DS9 relaunch? Perhaps they can live with her revival if she is in deep space where her actions won't directly impact what is going on back home?
I should consult my crystal ball.
I just notice that many who argue against bringing Janeway back, for whatever expressed reason, often admit along the way that they dislike the character and Voyager, as well. That makes me wonder if their stated reason--keeping the story line, exploring the reality of death, or not reusing the reset button, etc.--is just hiding the real reason, that that they dislike Janeway and are happy she's gone.
I wonder if they would care so much if this hadn't been rolled up into the TNG/DS9 relaunch? Perhaps they can live with her revival if she is in deep space where her actions won't directly impact what is going on back home?
I should consult my crystal ball.
I remember being one of those who was not for janeway returning. It has nothing to do with the show or the character. I consider Voyager my second favorite show next to TNG. I liked her character and many of the others. The only character I disliked were Seven and the doctor. Though Kirsten writing actually made me like Seven. I will give her a chance to make the doctor likeable. 
I would have no problem if they killed off any of the characters of the two shows. Janeway died trying to save everyone unfortunally it didn't work, but she died doing what she wanted to do. (trying to save her family)
I see the new direction as giving those characters that were so misused in the show a chance to excell in the new stories. I don't see how the new direction would fail because saint Janeway (yes sarcasm) is not there. She was not the only person that was on Voyager and she is not the only one who made Voyager enjoyable.
The book wasn't a bad book as long as you skip the mutiny part. (I tended to skip any T'Lana stuff, her character was just so unlikeable. She made the EMH seem tolerable)
Speaking of TNG which did have main character died. Data died the same way in a way, of course for him it wasn't a failure. I hope they don't have him return (I don't count the Game timeline) because that would his sacrifice seem meaniless.
I would have no problem if they killed off any of the characters of the two shows. Janeway died trying to save everyone unfortunally it didn't work, but she died doing what she wanted to do. (trying to save her family)
I see the new direction as giving those characters that were so misused in the show a chance to excell in the new stories. I don't see how the new direction would fail because saint Janeway (yes sarcasm) is not there. She was not the only person that was on Voyager and she is not the only one who made Voyager enjoyable.
The book wasn't a bad book as long as you skip the mutiny part. (I tended to skip any T'Lana stuff, her character was just so unlikeable. She made the EMH seem tolerable)
Speaking of TNG which did have main character died. Data died the same way in a way, of course for him it wasn't a failure. I hope they don't have him return (I don't count the Game timeline) because that would his sacrifice seem meaniless.
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Why would it make his sacrifice seem meaningless? Surely B4 can be invested with his memories/experience without diluting the impact and emotion behind Data's sacrifice. I just don't get it.
^But B4 and Data are different beings. Bringing Data back as B4 does a disservice to both characters. B4 should be allowed to be B4.
I agree with Darth. .
In the end Data was what he always wanted to be a human.
A machine wouldn't do what Data did.
If you brought back Data in b4's body you are telling data, we don't care that you sacrificed yourself for us. You are just a machine to us.
In the end Data was what he always wanted to be a human.
A machine wouldn't do what Data did.
If you brought back Data in b4's body you are telling data, we don't care that you sacrificed yourself for us. You are just a machine to us.
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Ah, yes but this isn't the point. The point is not if you are racist, or sexist or even ageist, but that you give the appearance of being what that.
If the same charges some of you use against Janeway were leveled against Sisko, you would be thought of as racist by people of color. It doesn't matter if you are or not you would appear to be. By the same token with a lot of the things said about Janeway many of you (both male and female) give the appearance of being sexist, and it doesn't matter if you are or not, you appear to be.
You can each protest individually, but when so many voices are male and the person you are talking about is female, you are going to appear sexist.
By the way none of the characters you are calling strong female characters, have the power or stature of Kathryn Janeway. There is no way killing the strongest female Trek character can appear to be anything other than a sexist act to an awful lot of female fans.
You couple that with the fact that from TOS to Voyager there were around three times as many male characters as female and yet the death count is three females (Janeway Jadzia and Yar) and for the males it is Data and Sisko and Sisko is back in the books. That would be approximately 35% of the females dead as apposed to around 10% of the males. Simply by the percentages you are appearing sexist by using women as the disposable characters.
"The Women in the Refrigerator Syndrome" is a sexist trope, and for all the protests here, Janeway's death has all the earmarks of just that kind of "shock value" death. It also fits Jadzia's and Yar's deaths (particularly the latter). By the numbers female characters are the victims of murders and male characters heroically sacrifice themselves.
If you don't want to be thought of as sexist, then don't give the appearance of being such.
Brit
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So, no matter what, killing Janeway is sexist?
So, no matter what, the authors can't kill Janeway, because she's a strong woman and for no other reason?
So, no matter what, the authors can't kill off the strong women...but they can kill off the strong men?
HOW are you not being sexist just as much as you claim we are?
I'm not trying to be snarky, Brit - I honestly want to understand your perspective. It seems to me like you're advocating for special treatment of women, just because they're women. Isn't that the whole thing feminism was designed to fight against? I'd love for you to tell me what I'm missing here.
So, no matter what, the authors can't kill Janeway, because she's a strong woman and for no other reason?
So, no matter what, the authors can't kill off the strong women...but they can kill off the strong men?
HOW are you not being sexist just as much as you claim we are?
I'm not trying to be snarky, Brit - I honestly want to understand your perspective. It seems to me like you're advocating for special treatment of women, just because they're women. Isn't that the whole thing feminism was designed to fight against? I'd love for you to tell me what I'm missing here.
You think Martha was a strong character? I mean, sure, she was a student Doctor and she managed to walk the earth to save the world, but she was a pretty one trick pony, she loved the Doctor and that's about it.
I am also male and I have no issues with strong women either in reality or fiction. As others have stated, the way Janeway was portrayed was inconsistent and being a feminist I find it somewhat laughable that so many people would hold her up to such a high regard. B'Elanna and Seven were far better characters than Janeway ever was.
As for her death, I liked Before Dishonour and I thought it ironic that she died like she did.
So you are only a stong female if you are high in rank? Wow
YOu don't need to be high in rank or rich to be a strong woman. I think some of us mentioned quite a few strong women. Ok if you want only females in high ranking positions there are Captain Erika Hernandez, Admiral Nechayev, Admiral Shelby (was captin), Ambassador Troi. (if you don't beleive me read Battle at Betazed)..
YOu don't need to be high in rank or rich to be a strong woman. I think some of us mentioned quite a few strong women. Ok if you want only females in high ranking positions there are Captain Erika Hernandez, Admiral Nechayev, Admiral Shelby (was captin), Ambassador Troi. (if you don't beleive me read Battle at Betazed)..
Or just not give a frak about what some crazy on the internet thinks.
Well, this thread just took a turn for the hysterical.
No, that's not enough either, because the character itself doesn't matter. Janeway was the first female lead of a Star Trek show, and that seems to be what matters. It's the symbolism of her character, not her character itself.
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