Should the new Enterprise have MACOS onboard?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Shipboard: Standard red-security, with a division specific badge instead of the standard delta.

Why would you want the 'marines' to wear the same uniform color that the security officers wear? They are not the same area of specialty.

My thinking? Shipboard, the Marines would be part of the standard security forces. Unless their was a boarding action, they'd not really have much to do in between missions.

You never know. They could spend the time training, for example.

I just disagree with the notion that SF Marines would simply be drawn from existing ships' crews (i.e. redshirts). That would not be realistic at all, IMHO. More specialization would be required. Being a soldier is a full-time job unto itself.

 

[The Wormhole]

Aren't US Marines used for security aboard Navy ships in real life?

 

[JoeZhang]

The film series is based on the show that people care about so... no.

 

[Captain59]

The film series is based on the show that people care about so... no.

Every once in a while you get an idiot response like this during a very lively and respectful thread. What can you do?

Just remember, Zhanger, that ENT is the only show completely intact in both the Prime and Abrams universes. And guess what? People care! There were many positive responses to the three references to ENT in the last movie, so deal with it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Aren't US Marines used for security aboard Navy ships in real life?

AFAIK, no, they aren't.

 

[M'Sharak]

The film series is based on the show that people care about so... no.

Every once in a while you get an idiot response like this during a very lively and respectful thread. What can you do?

Just remember, Zhanger, that ENT is the only show completely intact in both the Prime and Abrams universes. And guess what? People care! There were many positive responses to the three references to ENT in the last movie, so deal with it.

People may care about ENT, but caring about a thing is no excuse for being hypersensitive over a perceived slight to the extent that you take a personal swipe.

What you can do... is to let a trivial remark about a TV show go by... unanswered. What you especially don't want to do is make insinuations that you think someone might be an idiot. Because that would very likely earn you a warning if I see it happen again.

 

[The Wormhole]

Aren't US Marines used for security aboard Navy ships in real life?

AFAIK, no, they aren't.

Admittedly, I've done no research into this at all. However, I remember Ron Moore saying (on a BSG DVD commentary) that US Marines cover security aboard Navy ships. Given that Moore is a big US Navy nerd, I'd assume he'd know what he was talking about.

In fact, in Trek IV it was Marines who were chasing Chekov around the aircraft carrier Enterprise (played by actual Marines serving aboard USS Ranger).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I think Marines *used* to provide security on Naval vessels but not anymore. Don't quote me on that though.

But this is secondary, because in Trek, redshirts fulfill that function. Marines/MACOS are not redshirts. Those are two completely different areas of speciality. To expect all ground troops in Trek to be redshirts is to be unrealistically vague. Like I said before, it'd be like taking a Wal-Mart security guard and sending them to fight in Afghanistan or something.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They could be redshirts, just not Security redshirts.

 

[cbp44189]

I like the idea of MACO's being more like SEAL teams. Temporarily assigned to ships as the mission dictates. An O.D. green tunic, but a camo (Environment specific) combat uniform.

I might have to retract that statement. There's a few folks on another thread that would loathe the thought of MACO's onboard. Almost got my head bit off speaking up for soldiers/ MACO's. Didn't realize it was such a sensitive subject.

 

[Skywalker]

Aren't US Marines used for security aboard Navy ships in real life?

That's what masters-at-arms are for.

 

[I am not Spock]

I always assumed MACO were merged into the Starfleet security forces after the Federation was formed.

Though, as pointed out, we did see Starfleet 'marines' in STV, and in DS9's 'Nor The Battle to the Strong' and 'The Siege of AR-558'

 

[Sumghai]

I'm personally against the notion of any form of "Marines" in the UFP, as the term or concept isn't considered canon.

Despite the glamourous and gung-ho image of "Marines" suggested by real-life institutions such as the USMC, I strongly feel it goes against the idea of Starfleet being primarily an spacefaring exploration and diplomatic agency, with military response as a very reluctant last resort.

I tend to think of the MACOs from Enterprise as merely holdovers from United Earth's military, and that they were most likely disbanded / absorbed into Starfleet Security at the founding of the Federation.

I also consider the personnel on AR-558 to be simply made up of volunteers culled from various ships' complements.

There's no denying the fact that "Starfleet Marines" is popular amongst RPGers, as it offers a more military-orientated role for those who dislike the "sterile" diplomacy and PJs of mainstream Starfleet. It's just that there's no place in the lore for what amounts to a dedicated and somewhat aggressive planetary invasion and occupation force.


ASIDE:

This discussion reminds me of a chap on teh interwebz, the self-styled "General" Tyler Mannino, who was involved in various edit wars on Memory Alpha and Beta for attempting to force Starfleet Marines as canonical.

 

[RPJOB]

Perhaps Colonel West from TUC was with the Federation Marines. A ground combat division of Starfleet that didn't have ships of their own. When needed, they would be transported aboard the dual use (exploration/defense) ships of the regular Starfleet. That could explain the different rank structure.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm personally against the notion of any form of "Marines" in the UFP, as the term or concept isn't considered canon.

Yes, it is. See above.

 

[The Wormhole]

Perhaps Colonel West from TUC was with the Federation Marines. A ground combat division of Starfleet that didn't have ships of their own. When needed, they would be transported aboard the dual use (exploration/defense) ships of the regular Starfleet. That could explain the different rank structure.

The thing about Colonel West is that he wears the insignia of an Admiral. The novels suggest he is an Admiral and that "Colonel" is only a nickname. That doesn't really hold up though, since it would be completely unprofessional to be referred to by a nickname during an official meeting with the president.

The best evidence against West being a Marine is that he wore a white shirt and all the Marines in TFF wore blue.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No, it shouldn't.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Yeah, they'd subtract from the cool factor of Kirk and Spock.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The best evidence against West being a Marine is that he wore a white shirt and all the Marines in TFF wore blue.

Which is very little evidence at all, really, since uniform color shirts in ST II through VI were all over the proverbial map. Only command white and cadet red were the constants.

 

[RPJOB]

Exactly. Without looking I know his rank is Colonel. If I needed to know what color shirt he was wearing I'd have to check a screencap.

We've got someone with a rank that we have't seen on anyone else giving a briefing about a military operation. Sounds like a marine operation to me.