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Should Sisco have been demoted in Rank?

If Sisko deserved to be crucified for anything it was probably his actions in "In the Pale Moonlight".

I somehow doubt Starfleet would ever make an official record of that though.

Thing is, he covered his back with Starfleet at every point of ITPM where he had an active decision to take, except maybe not turning Garak in (and he may even have done that - there's nothing they could arrest Garak on that wouldn't have revealed the whole plot to the Romulans. Not wanting to tell Dax & co isn't the same thing - he kept the whole plot secret from everyone under his command, including those he made unwitting accessories like Bashir.)

We KNOW that he was actively removed from the Eddington hunt by Starfleet, and didn't clear resuming it with them, and we certainly know he didn't clear turning biogenic weapons on the Maquis colonists with them.
 
After rewatching the episode, I discovered now that the situation was far more complicated than I thought. Eddington and the Maquis were on borderline megla-mania.

They were going to release poisionous toxins
on every cardassian colony in the DMZ and then reclaim them all? Man..

In that case, that makes the Maquis public enemy number one, and Starfleet had to get them out of commission..

Even to the point of looking the other way considering Sisko did the same thing only with maqui colonists?

It was clear even Sisko's crew were really reluctant to launch the weapon- the look on Worf's and Kira's faces...

And that suggest they knew they were not officially authorized to do it, besides just having ethical problems with it.

In fact aren't bio-genic weapons banned? If they are, then the very act of possesing them and then using them makes it a serious issue for Sisko.

No wonder it's complicated, the best word to describe this one is controversial...
 
If Sisko had bombarded the planet with instantly lethal toxins, there is no way for Sisko and crew to avoid big trouble.
Eddington would have made it public. And the Romulans and Dominion would sure love to learn about the incident, not to mention the Federation public. He would have been court-martialled and put into prison. There is really no other way from what we know about the Federation. If they could keep it secret, maybe. But they can't.
 
Cisco (NASDAQ: CSCO) is an information technology company...
There is also a company by the name of Sisco. I don't know how big it is, but atleast in Oregon it seems to run most of the institutional food services. (i.e. schools, universities,etc)


As for Sisko, IIRC he was acting "outside" the preview of Starfleet and their regulations. Thats not to say there shouldn't be consequences, but maybe it does make some difference.
 
Also, Sisko said that the colonists in the DMZ "chose to live with the Cardassians", and he talked about "our"/the Cardassian "side of the DMZ".
Wouldn't that imply that the DMZ IS the territory with the planet in Journey's end and that the planets in question have a similar agreement? I think the writers of FTU definitely had that concept in mind.

"Journey's End" was very specific that Dorvan V would become a Cardassian world, without any sort of autonomy, and with Cardassian citizens forming 100% of the population - even if in this exceptional case, those citizens weren't biologically Cardassian, but human.

The DMZ worlds are very different beasts in that respect, definitely retaining their autonomy. However, it's perfectly possible that things were renegotiated after "Journey's End". After all, in that TNG episode, there was no talk about allowing any colonies to reside within the DMZ: the episode was solely about a simple border being drawn, and worlds on the wrong sides being evacuated. Perhaps the DMZ was invented as a compromise after "Journey's End" made things politically difficult?

Certainly there was never any suggestion that Cardassian law would be observed on Federation colonies or vice versa. The "sides of DMZ" thing seems to be limited to this exhance from "The Maquis":

Sisko: "I thought these colonists wanted to stay. That they refused to evacuate." (But apparently didn't want to make the Dorvan V concession of becoming Cardassians!)
Cal Hudson: "The treaty gave away their territory to the Cardassians, territory that these people had invested their lives in. Now, Ben, if you knew them as I do, you'd know why they can't leave. It's a bad treaty. The Federation gave away too much."
Sisko: "Several Cardassian colonies wanted to stay on the Federation side of the Zone too. It seemed like a reasonable compromise."

Now, Hudson says that "the treaty" gave away territory, while Sisko says "it" was a reasonable compromise. Perhaps we're seeing a development where "the treaty" is the one referred to in "Journey's End", without any DMZs, and "it" is the later compromise that gave birth to the DMZ and the autonomous colonies within.

If Sisko had bombarded the planet with instantly lethal toxins, there is no way for Sisko and crew to avoid big trouble.

I'd tend to side with the posters who feel starship captains have broad authority on this. Kirk was going to massacre a planetful of people in "Taste of Armageddon", too, and his crew seemed to concur. That the crew of Garth of Izar didn't concur, but sent their skipper to a mental asylum, probably speaks of different circumstances.

In "For the Uniform", there wasn't opposition from Dax, Kira, Worf or O'Brien, even though the four would represent four very different factions: Sisko's closest cohorts, outside observers with possible resistance fighter sympathies, extremely law-abiding busybodies, and average Joes with their heart in the right place. That more or less tells that Sisko's actions would have enjoyed wide support in Starfleet, too - perhaps wide enough that the letter of law would not have mattered.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Now, Hudson says that "the treaty" gave away territory, while Sisko says "it" was a reasonable compromise. Perhaps we're seeing a development where "the treaty" is the one referred to in "Journey's End", without any DMZs, and "it" is the later compromise that gave birth to the DMZ and the autonomous colonies within.

yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I'd tend to side with the posters who feel starship captains have broad authority on this. Kirk was going to massacre a planetful of people in "Taste of Armageddon", too, and his crew seemed to concur.
But if they're Federation citizens, as Necheyev said, wouldn't a deadly attack by the military against their own population (without provocation or threat) be a major crime? Even if we of course don't know how the Federation works, it's a somewhat different Federation we saw on TNG (and a completely different Cisko than we know).
It would be like sucking the particles off the planet in INS without telling the Ba'ku (and leaving them a shuttle).

Forcing their people to evacuate seems to be perfectly legal in the Federation (as seen "Journey's End" and "Insurrection"), but killing them?
So I'd rather think what Sisco did was basically the same as in Journey's End. Those colonists can be removed at any time by the Feds. I can't believe the "compromise" would give them more rights than they had before.
Sisko used "unorthodox measures" to do it and only got away because no one died and Eddington forced him into this situation.

I believe this is one of those episodes that started as a cool idea, like "Let he who is...", but simply didn't work out.

That more or less tells that Sisko's actions would have enjoyed wide support in Starfleet, too - perhaps wide enough that the letter of law would not have mattered.
What's worse is that the toxification of the Planet was just a part of his plan to get to Eddington.
Sisko killing civilians because he's mad of rage would be out of character. Sisko killing helpless Federation citzens as part of some military stratagem, that's simply unbelievable.

Are there any quotes of Behr or someone about this episode? This could be interesting.
 
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A Klingon aggressor invades Federation space, blows up an unarmed science vessel, takes Federation citizens hostage, knifes one of them, steals Federation military secrets and seeks to steal more, and winds up responsible for the destruction of a Federation heavy cruiser...

...And when they wind up killed by Starfleet officers, this is somehow Kirk's fault?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198988,00.html
 
A Klingon aggressor invades Federation space, blows up an unarmed science vessel, takes Federation citizens hostage, knifes one of them, steals Federation military secrets and seeks to steal more, and winds up responsible for the destruction of a Federation heavy cruiser...

...And when they wind up killed by Starfleet officers, this is somehow Kirk's fault?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198988,00.html
For what it's worth, his claim might have merit. And filing a lawsuit is much different from surviving a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim, or even a motion for summary judgment, which I think could be the likely endpoint of this particular case, unless the clerks' behavior was unreasonable and hence unlawful (no, you still can't torture people, even if they tried to rob you :p ).

The irony is that they might have been better off just killing him. How do you calculate the wrongful death damages for a career armed robber--obviously not even a very good one? :D

At any rate, while a civil suit could perhaps be filed against Kirk by the Klingons (although I still am left to wonder to what end given that the future has no money!), it too would not survive summary judgment. The interesting thing in that case would be if it got to a point that a court would have to determine whether the Klingons could seek a remedy against the Federation at all. Sure, he'd stolen the Enterprise, but defending the Genesis Planet was Federation business, and technically he was still an officer of Starfleet.

Of course, no one has any idea whether the Fed even permits foreigners to sue in its courts, or if it's waived absolute sovereign immunity, anyway.
 
If Sisko deserved to be crucified for anything it was probably his actions in "In the Pale Moonlight".

I somehow doubt Starfleet would ever make an official record of that though.

Be curious to find out what Section 31 would do, though.

It was established in the episode that Starfleet Command gave Sisko their blessing with his plan. It was a throw away line but it was in there.
 
^Doesn't matter. Nothing in the details of how Sisko implemented the plan exceeds the moral repugnance of the plan itself which Starfleet authorized. Unless they're total idiots, they will know Sisko can't accomplish such a shady underhanded scheme playing by nicey-nicey Federation rules.

Robert
 
As I said above, I'm not certain that Starfleet was aware of the specifics at the time.
They were probably aware of all the major aspects of the plan (they probably even approved the biomimetic gel as it was illegal for sale), but they probably only knew the specifics of Sisko's plan. They probably didn't have any idea of what Garak was cooking up.
 
What was really missing was Dukat's reaction to Sisko's method. I mean, Dukat patting Sisko on the back might have really been amusing.
 
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