Should Illia and Decker have survived ?

[Lance]

One of the great unanswered curiosities is, what would Phase II have really been like? In context of its time, and in context of being a follow-up to TOS at a time when the movies hadn't happened and there was very little Star Trek to compare it with?

I mean, despite TMP obviously evolving from it, we still have very little inkling of what it may have looked like, or how much closer to TOS in feel it might have been. The test footage that was shot shows actors wearing variations on the TOS uniforms, and the sets, despite in some cases being the same ones seen in TMP, have got a much more artificial look - the doors of the engine room are painted in a basic primary color not unlike the house style seen in TOS, not the sleek sheen that Bob Wise ordered be applied to the sets when he took over the production.

While the format documents hint at Phase II being more of a ensemble than TOS, to be honest the format documents for TOS were almost the same.

My bet is that had it gone into production, it's possible Phase II would have literally been a slightly updated TOS - not yet confident enough to go all out and do something different like in TNG, it might have been mired even more in basically being seen as a belated TOS season four.

We'll never truly know, but it can be fun to hypothesize

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

ISTR wasn't there talk that he was Matt Decker's son? So while it's clear Kirk had some pull in getting Will Decker the captaincy, and Decker certainly resents it when Kirk shows up again, it's also possible that there might have been latent feelings because of Kirk's involvement in the incident where his dad was killed (even though obviously Kirk didn't kill Matt Decker, Matt Decker killed himself).

It's generally accepted (but not cannon) that Will Decker was Matt Decker's son, so it's possible Will's feelings about his father's death (not Kirk's fault) may have affected his attitude toward Kirk. OTOH, Decker had more than two years to confront Kirk and get his feelings off his chest. That he wouldn't do that but would passive-aggressively channel his frustration over his father's death toward Kirk to get back at him for taking the Enterprise away is petty.

--Sran

 

[Belz...]

They thought they'd pass the baton over to Decker ?

That was the plan, yes. Shatner had an option of staying, leaving, or going to semi-regular guest star as the Admiral.

Damn. Now I really need to travel to an alternate timeline to see it happen.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Damn. Now I really need to travel to an alternate timeline to see it happen.

How do you know this isn't an alternate timeline, and Phase II was what was supposed to have happened?

--Sran

 

[Pauln6]

plus[/I] Rand. And Decker and Ilia. Although Xon was a whole new, quite different Vulcan, I'm sure fan outrage about "Where's Spock?" would have been strong.

I think you're right, if they'd tried to feature everyone every week. It might have worked if they'd gone for more of an ensemble approach, like you see in Deep Space nine, for example. In DS9 they had a large number of regulars, plus a pretty big list of recurring characters. But you didn't see everyone all the time, just whoever was needed for a particular story..

But did that kind of ensemble storytelling really exist back in the late seventies? Hill Street Blues was still a few years away and that sort of approach didn't really catch onto until later--in the eighties and nineties. TV science fiction at the time was largely represented by Glen Larson-type shows. Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica, that kind of thing.

We can't assume that a DS9-like show would have worked back in the those days--or would have even occurred to anyone. There's a reason that I Love Lucy isn't more like Seinfeld.

Different times, different expectations.

Battlestar Galactica had quite a large ensemble and not every character appeared in every episode. You also had Mission Impossible in the sixties and Space 1999 in the seventies. I doubt that the approach to the show would have been that different - most likely two male leads with a male and female support lead like in the early days of TOS plus the others as secondary support. Certainly from the scripts we've seen, not every character is mentioned in every episode, although they may have had cameos.

Seventies and eighties writing was generally quite weak though, even if there were some decent shows at the time. I think the first season of TNG is what we could have expected, which wasn't great overall. Even so, I think Phase II would have made a fun addition, especially if they did put a bit more effort into the support cast every now and then.

 

[Pauln6]

They thought they'd pass the baton over to Decker ?

That was the plan, yes. Shatner had an option of staying, leaving, or going to semi-regular guest star as the Admiral.

Damn. Now I really need to travel to an alternate timeline to see it happen.

Take a look at my Youtube comic! You will be amazed at how bad it could have been!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Riker was always pretty much destined to remain the the trusty Number One right through TNG from conception to reception

Actually, if you go back to the earliest announcements, "Will Ryker" was to have been the lead character of the series, denying his captain the change to accompany away teams (led by feisty Security Chief Macha Hernandez, who was to look like Jenette Goldstein's character in "Aliens"). This was based partly on David Gerrold's suggestions in a chapter of "World of Star Trek", as to how to make TOS more believable it were ever to be remade.

It was only when they realised what a huge talent they'd uncovered with Patrick Stewart that the Riker role got pared back a little.

While the format documents hint at Phase II being more of a ensemble than TOS, to be honest the format documents for TOS were almost the same.

My bet is that had it gone into production, it's possible Phase II would have literally been a slightly updated TOS - not yet confident enough to go all out and do something different like in TNG, it might have been mired even more in basically being seen as a belated TOS season four.

Although, after years of conventioneering beside Roddenberry, I think Takei, Doohan, Nichols and Koenig went into "ST Phase II" with an expectation that it would have a more ensemble feel.

 

[publiusr]

They thought they'd pass the baton over to Decker ?

That was the plan, yes. Shatner had an option of staying, leaving, or going to semi-regular guest star as the Admiral.

Damn. Now I really need to travel to an alternate timeline to see it happen.

If I could visit timelines, it would be to pick up toys from other series and their DVDs--Phase II from one, Planet of the Titans...

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^I'd actually want to see how the events of "Yesterday's Enterprise" would have played out had the timeline not been erased by Enterprise-C. What roles would our other heroes (Sisko, Janeway, etc.) have in the dark future? What about Worf and Martok, who clearly would not come to know the Federation as friends or allies?

--Sran

 

[Belz...]

So, Sran, you'd visit fictional timeline ? Or a timeline in which the show had remained in the alternate timeline ?

 

[wjaspers]

so I wonder who else thinks it would've been better if they had "survived" the movie and came back for the sequels.

What do you think ?

Think they will be back in ST13

 

[Belz...]

I'd like that, actually.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

So, Sran, you'd visit fictional timeline ? Or a timeline in which the show had remained in the alternate timeline ?

I'd be willing to visit it as a novel series, not as a TV series. I just don't think there's enough there for something sustained. Four or five books on the subject is enough.

--Sran

 

[Pauln6]

I'd like that, actually.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Lt Decker and Ensign Ilia milling around somewhere.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Lt Decker and Ensign Ilia milling around somewhere.

Ilia seemed fairly young, so it's possible she wouldn't have even been at the Academy by the time the Enterprise was launched under Pike in the nuTrek universe.

--Sran

 

[F. King Daniel]

That was the plan, yes. Shatner had an option of staying, leaving, or going to semi-regular guest star as the Admiral.

Damn. Now I really need to travel to an alternate timeline to see it happen.

If I could visit timelines, it would be to pick up toys from other series and their DVDs--Phase II from one, Planet of the Titans...

Good luck getting alternate-reality DVDs to play on our machines!

(can you tell I've already wondered about this?)

 

[Belz...]

Ilia seemed fairly young, so it's possible she wouldn't have even been at the Academy by the time the Enterprise was launched under Pike in the nuTrek universe.

Same could be said of most of the TOS crew, who are in the reboot movies many years before the start of TOS.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I admit that I have never given a thought to what Star Trek would be like if Decker and Ilia continued. After reading the description of Phase II, I wonder how quickly Ilia's sexuality would have made the character one dimensional: her interactions with humans revolving around the suppression of drives and impulses. Troi, Ilia's successor, couldn't continue as a pleasure centered character, eventually becoming more glutttonous, focusing on food (which became a running gag).

 

[Belz...]

Troi was also one-dimensional, though.

 

[trevanian]

Damn. Now I really need to travel to an alternate timeline to see it happen.

How do you know this isn't an alternate timeline, and Phase II was what was supposed to have happened?

--Sran

Because PLANET OF THE TITANS is the true timeline.

Ken Adam, Derek Meddings and Jordan Freakin' Belson working together on a Trek movie with Toshiro Mifune as a Klingon? Truly, dream come true.