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Should Babylon 5 be remastered?

The second one is that, while they already have digital HD copies of the live-action footage that they made for the DVDs and Sci-Fi Channel reruns, they may not have it for any live-action shots that included special effects (from set extensions to CG aliens to PPG shots). Babylon 5 hasn't had the best luck with the archives (many of the original CG files were lost in storage only a few years after the show ended, and I believe rats got into the original film from "The Gathering"), and if those shots are unavailable, then the whole project would just be a waste of time, because you'd still be stuck with a massive quality loss in shots combining live action and visual effects even if anything that was pure live-action or pure CGI looked perfect.

That is my understanding. As far as I know the original footage that was combined with CGI, and also live action leading into and out of CGI shots is also missing. Although there are a few B5 experts around here who might know better.

How about using CGI models of the actors as with Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy? Even more expensive, but hey, we're talking silly money anyway.

You'd practically have to have made the assets necessary to remake all of B5 as CG animation. You'd need pitch-perfect 3D models of the sets and the actors (adjusted episode by episode and shot by shot to match hair, makeup, wardrobe, and aging) to match any shot where a PPG was fired or someone looked out a window.

At that point, you're starting to get to the point where you're doing a shot-for-shot remake rather than an enhancement of the existing show to bring it up to spec.
 
The DVDs are so inconsistent that every time an FX shot comes up it takes me right out of the story.
I've never understood this comment. Can you not watch Classic SciFi like Forbidden Planet or War of the Worlds? Can you not enjoy Blake's 7 or Space 1999?

The only thing that takes me out of a good story, is subtitles and Silent Films, where you have to concentrate on reading the text (And I realize this is my own failing)

I think (correct if wrong) that Resonator meant that on the DVDs, live action shots have been sourced from the widescreen set footage, but shots which have added effects have been cropped/stretched from the 4/3 transmission edits, with an off-puttingly noticeable change in quality. Nothing to do with the quality of the effects, just an inconsistency in the quality of the image.
 
How about using CGI models of the actors as with Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy? Even more expensive, but hey, we're talking silly money anyway.

You'd practically have to have made the assets necessary to remake all of B5 as CG animation. You'd need pitch-perfect 3D models of the sets and the actors (adjusted episode by episode and shot by shot to match hair, makeup, wardrobe, and aging) to match any shot where a PPG was fired or someone looked out a window.

At that point, you're starting to get to the point where you're doing a shot-for-shot remake rather than an enhancement of the existing show to bring it up to spec.

Which isn't possible as the assets are no longer available. You might as well keep the audio and turn the whole thing into a machinima.
 
I would say that CGI actually helped to sell the show because using computers was a lot cheaper than making traditional models. To directly quote JMS: "On a cost-per-shot basis you can get a lot more bang for your buck with CGI than models."

Yeah I wonder how much more expensive Avatar would have been using some models.

They used models. They didn't use what was cheap, they used what was good. Considering how bad the VFX of Babylon 5 look compared to - dare I say it - DS9, JMS really went for the truly cheap.
 
Totally ignoring all the logical financial, technological and social arguments presented upthread, and delving here into pure fannish dreaming (;)), I like the idea of new CGI for one reason - they can introduce more ship models to better represent the diversity of the setting. There were several scenes of importance over the series where much significance was made of the number of races and nations involved, yet the available models were limited to only a few ship designs. "Over two dozen races", yet what we see is rather limited to "about five of them". Sure, races could share designs, but often the vessels in question (and their technologies) were portrayed as exclusive to their races, even jealously guarded. If they ever did update the effects, they could sprinkle more designs in and truly represent what we're told in dialogue we're seeing (throw in some of the League ship designs from the "Into the Fire" concept art).
 
Hey, I'd be happy if they just swapped the name-plates of the Roanoke and Agrippa in "Severed Dreams"!

All joking aside would love to see B5 remastered, but it's probably way too expensive.

Besides, where does the remastering stop? Land of the Giants? The original V? Seaquest DSV?

The Last Starfighter....


I'll just wait 20 years for the remake...
 
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When the show premiered, nobody said "wow, that's bad CGI!" They said "WOW! You can do that with computers!?!? That looks GREAT!"

When I watch a TV show I put my head into the time it was made. B5 is an archeological gem of early TV CGI, and I love every minute of it, no matter how much better CGI has gotten over the intervening years. I'll expect current-quality CGI in any NEW B5 productions that may happen, but I'm perfectly happy with the originals as they are.

Finally.

Another voice of reason.
 
As one of the first all CGI tv series created for American TV, it seems like it would be perfect for remastering.

It would be great to see what could be done with the show with modern CGI.

I'm sure that there are some technical difficulties in making a transition...or conversion to HD.

I suspect that like most of the modern Trek series, much of the CG work was added to the show in video...thus making it much more expensive to clean up.

perhaps in 10 years time, don't think it is necessary atm.
 
The DVDs are so inconsistent that every time an FX shot comes up it takes me right out of the story.
I've never understood this comment. Can you not watch Classic SciFi like Forbidden Planet or War of the Worlds? Can you not enjoy Blake's 7 or Space 1999?

The only thing that takes me out of a good story, is subtitles and Silent Films, where you have to concentrate on reading the text (And I realize this is my own failing)

I think (correct if wrong) that Resonator meant that on the DVDs, live action shots have been sourced from the widescreen set footage, but shots which have added effects have been cropped/stretched from the 4/3 transmission edits, with an off-puttingly noticeable change in quality. Nothing to do with the quality of the effects, just an inconsistency in the quality of the image.

One that always sticks out is during Endgame, when the soldiers aboard the Apollo rush up to destroy the telepath hacking their network. When they fire, the shot drops in quality.
 
No sci-fi TV show or movie "should" be given more updated visual effects, because it is already a finished product. Having said that, it can be fun to watch an old favorite with new VFX.
 
When the show premiered, nobody said "wow, that's bad CGI!" They said "WOW! You can do that with computers!?!? That looks GREAT!"

When I watch a TV show I put my head into the time it was made. B5 is an archeological gem of early TV CGI, and I love every minute of it, no matter how much better CGI has gotten over the intervening years. I'll expect current-quality CGI in any NEW B5 productions that may happen, but I'm perfectly happy with the originals as they are.

Finally.

Another voice of reason.

Well, shit - maybe I do need a roommate ;)

Babylon 5 had awesome effects in its day and surprise, surprise - 17 years later the effects look dated! They're a product of their time. Would it be neat if they updated them? Well, maybe. But really, if you're watching Babylon 5 for the effects, you're missing the point.
 
Like I said when Trek Remastered was being considered - I enjoy seeing new effects in NEW productions, and I enjoy seeing people like us messing around with desktop CGI creating cool new effects of old favorites, I do NOT want to see original shows disfigured with new effects in any official way.

Alas...
 
Season One aside, I think the B5 CGI holds up pretty damn well. I still think its gorgeous. All those massive space battles? Hell yeah.
 
Like I said when Trek Remastered was being considered - I enjoy seeing new effects in NEW productions, and I enjoy seeing people like us messing around with desktop CGI creating cool new effects of old favorites, I do NOT want to see original shows disfigured with new effects in any official way.

Alas...
Hey, at least the original versions are still available in the best format that they can be.

*COUGH* Lucas *COUGH* 1993 Laserdisc Transfer *COUGH* GOUT *COUGH* *COUGH*
 
Like I said when Trek Remastered was being considered - I enjoy seeing new effects in NEW productions, and I enjoy seeing people like us messing around with desktop CGI creating cool new effects of old favorites, I do NOT want to see original shows disfigured with new effects in any official way.

Alas...

The problems is that a new higher resolution media come out (DVD,Blu-ray etc) the quality or lack there of in the original effects will become more and more apparent.
 
I'll expect current-quality CGI in any NEW B5 productions that may happen, but I'm perfectly happy with the originals as they are.

I just wish we had the 4:3 originals, and not the new, cropped to 16:9 versions that are on DVD (cropped, at least, when it comes to any visual effect shot).
 
Considering how bad the VFX of Babylon 5 look compared to - dare I say it - DS9, JMS really went for the truly cheap.
Like he had any choice in the matter:

Trek budget - approx. 1.4 million per episode.
B5 budget - approx. 900K per episode.

It's simple math. Don't think for a moment that B5 would have been renewed if it had gone over budget.

Jan
 
Like I said when Trek Remastered was being considered - I enjoy seeing new effects in NEW productions, and I enjoy seeing people like us messing around with desktop CGI creating cool new effects of old favorites, I do NOT want to see original shows disfigured with new effects in any official way.

Alas...

The problems is that a new higher resolution media come out (DVD,Blu-ray etc) the quality or lack there of in the original effects will become more and more apparent.

So?
The older I get the more apparent it becomes too. :)

If new audiences have problems accepting the way things were when a show was made, that's their problem, not the show's.

It's the "colorizing Casablanca" discussion.
 
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