Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

[Saquist]

OK, let me ask a serious question that I'm virtually certain is going to cause some outrage in certain posters...are the various ship lengths given on Ex Astris Scientia pretty much considered to be accurate, or at least the best compromise between competing valid sources?

If not, what source do you use?

I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but I have a little file where I keep the ships broken down by class and I chart the various dimensions as given from various sources, whether they be tech manuals, websites (Ex Astris is my most used), Trekpedia, Starship Spotter, cutaway posters, etc. There's a fair amount of variation, but I've found it helpful when posting on Trek Tech to have that file handy.

Some of them I agree with others I don't.
I agree (despite the bridge) Excelsior is 467 meters.
I don't agree the Defiant is 120meters It has to be 170-200.

Lets say most of them are pretty accurate unless we have to make judgment calls.

I was able to confirm that the CGI artist did scale Defiant to 170 meters during it's Death Scenes

Spoiler: Really Big

Intrepid was scaled to its known 344 meters and the life pod was fit just inside the hatch as shown in one episode. So since we know these are the same escape pods in Defiant I scaled Defiant according to the escape pod scenes and amazingly it came out to almost precisely 170 meters the first time. While the 120 meter Defiant can't fit this the two pods forward and the two pods aft. Soo despite ex atris analysis of the most common size there does seem to be a litteral opperation limit to how small Defiant should be.

 

[Bill Morris]

Well, the hatch doors for the Voyager escape pods seem to be 4.26 m wide on the CGI, and in the nice images at drex files each door seems to be a little more than a foot wider on each side than the opening for the pod. If an escape pod is 3.5 meters wide, as stated and which works perfectly with a 120-meter Defiant, then a door on Voyager would calculate out to 14.76 inches wider on each side than the pod itself, which includes jam space (clearly visible in the drex files scenes of doors open and pods being launched) plus and small gap between the opening and the pod.

On the Voyager CGI (dorsal view) with overall length at 1130 pixels and most easily measured hatch door at 14 pixels, and with stated ship length of 344 meters:
(344 meters/1130 pixels) x 14 pixels = 4.26 meters door width
(344 meters/1130 pixels) x 1 pixel = .3 meter margin of error

In this drex files pictorial, you can clearly see the approximately 30" difference between door width and opening:
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/intrepid-class-escape-pod/
Intrepid CGI:
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2011/02/06/uss-voyager-cgi-pictorial/

 

[Saquist]

Hmmm. That implies an even larger Defiant

 

[BlobVanDam]

Personally, I wouldn't trust the CG model of Voyager for anything. The sizes of some of the escape pod hatches aren't even consistent (at least, the 4 on the side towards the bridge are hugely off). Not that I don't trust your reasoning, it's just that the CG model of Voyager isn't very reliable.

 

[Bill Morris]

That's just to demonstrate that Voyager's escape pods don't have to be larger than the stated width of 3.5 meters. They might even be 3.5 for Voyager and 2.8 for a 120-meter Defiant and still look that same (as per Bernd's measurements and calculations, which I haven't tried to verify). Anyway, the designers effects people
don't always get their stories straight. Otherwise this thread might not even exist.

Show us your math. Bernd's calculations must have taken what I said about the doors into account, since he arrived at 3.5 meters (or he just took somebody's word for it).

 

[Saquist]

Personally, I wouldn't trust the CG model of Voyager for anything. The sizes of some of the escape pod hatches aren't even consistent (at least, the 4 on the side towards the bridge are hugely off). Not that I don't trust your reasoning, it's just that the CG model of Voyager isn't very reliable.

That's one of the reasons why I didn't use the CGI Voyager.

That's just to demonstrate that Voyager's escape pods don't have to be larger than the stated width of 3.5 meters. They might even be 3.5 for Voyager and 2.8 for a 120-meter Defiant and still look that same (as per Bernd's measurements and calculations, which I haven't tried to verify). Anyway, the designers effects people
don't always get their stories straight. Otherwise this thread might not even exist.

Show us your math. Bernd's calculations must have taken what I said about the doors into account, since he arrived at 3.5 meters (or he just took somebody's word for it).

The only probable I have with the 2.8 pod is that it requires us to believe that schematically the pods are litterally (not just virtually) identical. How ever that a becomes a completely different design. There would be at least some external scale issues, the phaser strip shouldn't be the exact same size, the entry hatch should, and things like that but from what I'm seeing these are identical.

The drawing shows for Defiant that those pods would have to be 10% (?) smaller but that doesn't seem to go with the tight fit they have on Voyager or Defiant.

 

[Patrickivan]

...though the franchise is supposed to be about the "Human Adventure," for many fans, hypothetical nonsense tech has become more important than people.

This could be the new motto for TrekBBS!

I support this notion.

Good point.

Close the Trek tech and even Fan Art threads... Quick!

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

Here's a quick comparison chart of the ships at my corrected sizes:

This is the "no fudge" scale. The Enterprise-D and NX-01 are their original/official sizes, the TOS Enterprise scaled up to match Drexler's scale redshirts and Exclesior to match the bridge dome. And please take all this with the pinch of salt it's intended.

Shit, I misspelled starship.

This Beith the New Cannon! Sayith Lord Garth. Subject is closed (and good lord in the E-D fugly) kindly stow her overly neon and portholed hull away from mine eyes in the New E's hangarbay

 

[Captain Robert April]

Technical note: A comparison chart is of dubious use when the ships are overlapping each other.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But it looks so much more busy and cool.

 

[Vance]

Isn't that 'kewl'? :P

 

[Captain Robert April]

It also doesn't help when two of the ships aren't all the way in the pic.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The Excelsior looks like some kind of fixture holding the Kelvin and the JJPrise together.

It's a very visually deceptive image.

 

[MapleJack]

They are all bigger then a breadbox or a Volkswagen Beetle.

 

[Mage]

I just find it extremely amusing that people can get so worked up about how big a ship is.

 

[Vance]

Welcome to the internet. Nice to meet you.

 

[Mage]

Welcome to the internet. Nice to meet you.

You'd think that after years and years online you'd get used to things.

Sorry, I know I'm sounding very nasty towards people who really are interested in this. For me personally the size of a starship has nothing to do with the story being told.
But there are people out there who enjoy picking things apart like that, so I should respect that.

Again, my apoligies if I offended anyone with my earlier comment.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Welcome to the internet. Nice to meet you.

You'd think that after years and years online you'd get used to things.

Sorry, I know I'm sounding very nasty towards people who really are interested in this. For me personally the size of a starship has nothing to do with the story being told.
But there are people out there who enjoy picking things apart like that, so I should respect that.

Again, my apoligies if I offended anyone with my earlier comment.

I don't think anyone cares about it for the sake of the story. Whether the Defiant is 120m or 170m long, doesn't affect how the episode plays out.
I think the appeal of these treknobabble discussions is to come up with some plausible continuity and reality that adds an extra layer of realism to the Trek universe beyond what we see in the episodes and movies. When I see these ship schematics and tech diagrams and ship sizes, it makes it all feel real like it exists in a real fleshed out universe, instead of just some funky looking futuristic ships that some guys fly around in sometimes.

Does it really matter? Not really. But does it enhance the experience for the hardcore Trek fan? For some people, definitely.

 

[Mage]

Welcome to the internet. Nice to meet you.

You'd think that after years and years online you'd get used to things.

Sorry, I know I'm sounding very nasty towards people who really are interested in this. For me personally the size of a starship has nothing to do with the story being told.
But there are people out there who enjoy picking things apart like that, so I should respect that.

Again, my apoligies if I offended anyone with my earlier comment.

I don't think anyone cares about it for the sake of the story. Whether the Defiant is 120m or 170m long, doesn't affect how the episode plays out.
I think the appeal of these treknobabble discussions is to come up with some plausible continuity and reality that adds an extra layer of realism to the Trek universe beyond what we see in the episodes and movies. When I see these ship schematics and tech diagrams and ship sizes, it makes it all feel real like it exists in a real fleshed out universe, instead of just some funky looking futuristic ships that some guys fly around in sometimes.

Does it really matter? Not really. But does it enhance the experience for the hardcore Trek fan? For some people, definitely.

You are, ofcourse, completely right. The fact that these ships are very well thought out is a big appeal, to me as well. I'd be lying if I said I never wished I could stand on the bridge of the Enterprise.
And even though I don't understand the entire discussion about how long the Defiant is, I can understand how some people get a real kick out of analyzing screencaps and data from manuals. And even though I wouldn't do something like that myself, I respect how other people get there enjoyment out of it.

 

[BlobVanDam]

You are, ofcourse, completely right. The fact that these ships are very well thought out is a big appeal, to me as well. I'd be lying if I said I never wished I could stand on the bridge of the Enterprise.
And even though I don't understand the entire discussion about how long the Defiant is, I can understand how some people get a real kick out of analyzing screencaps and data from manuals. And even though I wouldn't do something like that myself, I respect how other people get there enjoyment out of it.

It all comes down to what aspect of the show appeals to certain people. Me, I love scifi for the tech, so the ships alone are a big part of the appeal to me. For other people, they couldn't care less if they were flying around in a shoebox, and are more drawn solely to the characters and stories being told. Just like the really nerdy scifi tech storylines appeal to me, while others may prefer the character driven episodes. Just personal preference of what appeals to different people.