Shinzon's DNA in light of Picard show revelations

[Yistaan]

We don't know exactly when Picard had his DNA stolen to create Shinzon. However, presumably it was some time before Picard was assimilated to become Locutus.

We know that Picard's DNA was altered to turn him into a Borg transmitter or whatever, and that this gave him irumodic syndrome and this went undetected until the Picard show. Strangely enough, none of the medical care he received post-assimilation caught this nor did the transporters (which are said to imprint common human DNA to save power onto all humans, what the changelings sabotaged to infect people with Borg DNA) seemingly overwrite Picard's Borg DNA with the common human DNA template that exists in transporters all the times he was transported after Best of Both Worlds.

Yet if Shinzon was cloned from Picard's original DNA, why didn't Dr. Crusher notice the difference in Shinzon's DNA from Picard's Borg-altered DNA immediately when she compared them? A Starfleet medical computer should catch something like that.

Thoughts?

 

[Boo-khat!]

We know that Picard's DNA was altered to turn him into a Borg transmitter or whatever, and that this gave him irumodic syndrome and this went undetected until the Picard show.

I don't recall that being the reason for his Irumodic syndrome, but then again that show sucked balls so I might not have been paying as much attention to stuff like that than I normally would have.

 

[Yistaan]

I don't recall that being the reason for his Irumodic syndrome, but then again that show sucked balls so I might not have been paying as much attention to stuff like that than I normally would have.

Not only was it the reason for his irumodic syndrome, in retrospect it seems that the point of "All Good Things" (an event entirely created by Q sending Picard around in time to create an anomaly and then fix said anomaly) was to create Jack Crusher (at the cost of countless lives lost on Frontier Day that would otherwise not have happened).

AGT showed us that Picard's irumodic syndrome was never identified as the Borg infection it was and he would've died alone in his vineyard despite marrying Beverly. When Q changed that by showing Picard the AGT future, ironically despite Picard and Crusher not marrying they end up having a kid. Furthermore the post-credits scene of Picard showed that Q had plans for Jack.

 

[Boo-khat!]

Can you post the relevant lines where it’s stated that he got the Irumodic syndrome from being Locutus?

 

[Yistaan]

Can you post the relevant lines where it’s stated that he got the Irumodic syndrome from being Locutus?

It gave him what seemingly was irumodic syndrome but wasn't, look at the false positives chapter of this Memory Alpha article: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

 

[The Gatekeeper]

We don't know exactly when Picard had his DNA stolen to create Shinzon.

Since Shinzon was aging naturally, and assuming he's of equivalent age to Tom Hardy at the time, the Romulans would have likely obtained their DNA sample of Picard sometime in the 2350s.

Yet if Shinzon was cloned from Picard's original DNA, why didn't Dr. Crusher notice the difference in Shinzon's DNA from Picard's Borg-altered DNA immediately when she compared them? A Starfleet medical computer should catch something like that.

Since Crusher scanned Shinzon at a point when his DNA was already beginning to break down, any deviations would have been attributed to that. Plus Shinzon was never a 1:1 copy of Picard anyway, given the Romulans had his DNA coded to rapidly age to Picard's actual age at some point. It's because the aging protocol was never activated that his DNA began breaking down. Again, any discrepancies would have been attributed to that.

I don't recall that being the reason for his Irumodic syndrome, but then again that show sucked balls so I might not have been paying as much attention to stuff like that than I normally would have.

I don't remember the specifics of what episode or what scene, but yes, the third season did state that Picard's Irumodic Syndrome was a result of his Borg assimilation. Yes, it's unbelievably stupid, but so's that entire season.

 

[Yistaan]

Crusher: The more I studied his DNA the more confusing it got. Finally I could only come to one conclusion. ...Shinzon was created with temporal RNA sequencing. He was designed so that at a certain point, his aging process could be accelerated to reach your age more quickly. He was going to need to skip thirty years of his life, but when the temporal sequencing wasn't activated his cellular structure started breaking down. ...He's dying.

Picard: Dying? ...Can anything be done for him?

Crusher: Nothing except a complete transfusion from the only donor with compatible DNA. ...You.

It's not clear what Crusher means by "confusing" because at the end, DNA is really just a very, very, very long listing of 4 letters, A, G, T, and C. Shinzon's "list" either matches Picard's or it doesn't. That they were able to determine that he was a clone seems to indicate that his DNA "list" was an exact match, period.

That being said, there is the decay plot point but they also mention temporal RNA sequencing and RNA isn't DNA. But then Crusher ALSO says that Shinzon's DNA is "confusing".

So I SUPPOSE there's wiggle room for that decay to coverup the DNA discrepancies but honestly I would assume Crusher and the Enterprise computers would be able to tell the difference between a general cellular degradation and a clear cut discrepancy from Shinzon's DNA and Picard's DNA. But I guess they can't.

Hmm the ironic thing might be that even if Shinzon got that blood transfusion from Picard, it might not have worked because Picard's DNA is no longer an exact match to Shinzon's and then both Picard would've been dead and Shinzon would've died anyway.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

honestly I would assume Crusher and the Enterprise computers would be able to tell the difference

Why? This isn't even the only time Starfleet medical computers have failed to miss the completely obvious. Ash Tyler was in Disco's sickbay three times and they somehow missed that his blood pressure and heartrate were completely wrong for human standards. And what finally gave him away the fourth time was a mysterious scar on his bones. In light of that, I'm not at all shocked that one scan of someone who was scanned once didn't get that in-depth an analysis after it was learned he was dying and indeed he was dead within a day afterwards.

 

[Christopher]

Since Shinzon was aging naturally, and assuming he's of equivalent age to Tom Hardy at the time, the Romulans would have likely obtained their DNA sample of Picard sometime in the 2350s.

Yes. I've seen people question why Picard would've had his DNA sampled before he became the Enterprise captain, assuming that he wasn't famous yet, but people forget that the reason he was made captain of the Starfleet "flagship" in the first place was because he was already a legendary explorer because of his 22 years aboard the Stargazer. The Stargazer was lost in 2355, so he could've been sampled then, or possibly even earlier.


As for the Irumodic thing, one thing Picard season 3 got wrong was that "All Good Things..." didn't say Picard was bound to get Irumodic Syndrome, but that he had a neurological anomaly that could potentially lead to multiple conditions including that one, or to none at all.

 

[Yistaan]

Picard show itself is contradictory about his health across episodes. Dr. Benayoun said in Picard Season 1 that Picard had an anomaly in his brain that could lead to irumodic syndrome but cleared him for duty anyway, VERY different from Picard outright having irumodic syndrome period. Then by the end of the season Picard is dead of this anomaly.

Suddenly in Picard Season 3 he's talking with Jack and saying that he had irumodic syndrome for 20 years, even though none of the TNG movies indicated this (you think it would've been mentioned in, say, Insurrection if Picard was looking for a cure from constant nightmares and irumodic syndrome for example)