Shields

[The Rock]

Starting in TNG, they depicted ship shields as being a bubble around the ship (which could be seen whenever, say, the Enterprise was fired upon).

However, before TNG, even though ships would have shields up, when they were fired upon, it would show the ships' hulls as being directly hit by enemy fire (as though there were no shields up even though they really were up).

Did shields work differently before TNG? Instead of a bubble, were shields attached directly to the hull or something like that? I've always wondered this.

 

[Timo]

In TOS, the best we could tell was that weapons fire from the hero ship came roughly from the direction of the hero ship, and weapons fire directed at the hero ship impacted in roughly the same frame of film as the hero ship.

TAS was no improvement there. And of the movies that preceded TNG, few featured shield hits. That is, in TMP, we basically only saw those from the inside, with no way to tell where and how they hit. In ST2, shields were down in all the fights. In ST3, only the Klingons had their shields up. And in ST4, we had no hits of any sort.

So in terms of onscreen history, no, shields didn't work differently in the sense of having different visuals. They just worked fuzzily.

In terms of in-universe history, though... DSC certainly shows skin hits rather than bubbles, giving us one way by which to interpret the TOS/TAS fuzziness.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[NCC-73515]

DIS could be an intermediate thing following ENT's hull polarization and preceding TNG's true deflector shields. By INS/NEM, shield tech was advanced enough to have them closer to the hull.

 

[Unicron]

DS9, at least during the Dominion War, seemed to forgo any SFX for shields and just show weapons directly impacting hulls. Not unlike in Star Wars, where shields are referenced in dialogue but not really given any visual effects (and there are separate models for physical objects and energy objects, of which the latter consume more energy to keep powered than the former).

I'm tempted to say some of the earlier DS9 eps would have used shield bubble effects to a more limited degree, but I can't recall how consistently. The Defiant had such effects battling the Klingons in "Way of the Warrior" in some shots, and when Tom Riker stole the ship for the Maquis, he agreed to put the ship within a Cardassian vessel's shield bubble towards the end. The station's shields were seen as a bubble in a few cases, like in "Emissary" when it relocated and when the Dominion launched their assault.

I think it's quite plausible that we would see different generations of shields over the years, with different degrees of effectiveness. And it's also plausible that with the Dominion having an upper hand for the first half of the war, maybe many allied vessels were suffering from the inability to keep their systems properly repaired. Vreenak said in "Pale Moonlight" that the Federation had taken heavy damage to their shipyards and were trying to rebuild them, while the Dominion supply lines were mostly secure. And we hear some appalling loss reports from engagements in other episodes.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'd like to think that by the end of the 24th Century and beyond, you can have Shields of any configuration.

Be it Ellipsoid Bubble shields that wrap around a huge volume of the your StarShip like in the TNG, DS9, VOY era.

Or Tighter Skin Shields that project the Deflector Shields only a few meters away from the hull.

Or even a combination of Multiple Shield Types active simultaneously

Imagine every Standard StarFleet StarShip with multiple layers of defense active based on every defensive tech ever devised in all of Star Trek and used by StarFleet.

That would make things far more interesting and realistic in the sense that StarFleet is improving it's tech and not relying on one set of technology to defend itself, but stacking as many layers of defense as possible.

Kind of like what the US does with it's multiple layers of defense when it comes to defending Vessels, the Main Land, a Battle Group, etc.

There's so much useful defensive / offensive technology to stack on each other.

 

[NCC-73515]

The Scimitar had double shields

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The Scimitar had double shields

A piece of tech that StarFleet should copy and Mass Produce =D

Imagine:
TNG Era Ellipsoid Bubble Shields
+
Contoured Skin Shields
+
Ablative Armor
+
Ablative Hull Generator
+
Shield Drones that Emit another layer of Shields and can physically block once their Shields run out.
+
more other Shield tech...

 

[Timo]

...Phasers configured as shields (a few novels); tractor beams configured as shields ("Way of the Warrior"); a couple of active defenses thrown in to boot.

But it's hard math that's decisive there. It's insane to put any power into ablative armor or close-in defense phasers if calculations show that it's better spent reinforcing the bubble shields. So the chief reason for having ablative armor or CIWS phasers would be if certain specific combat scenarios called for those, even if most called for bubble shields only; Trek fights can be diverse like that.

Having the Gatling phasers there as "backup" once the bubble shield fails is only sensible if the Gatling phasers can be kept utterly offline until that point of the fight, so that they don't consume any of the bubble shield power that goes into saving the ship. This is also a psychological thing: can a skipper refrain from wasting power by shooting down incoming torpedoes, even when he perfectly well knows that letting them hit his shields is the right thing to do? Or should Starfleet leave the defensive phasers ashore so that the skipper won't be tempted? Modern armies deliberately refrain from giving anti-aircraft or antitank armament to units they wish to steer clear of fighting aircraft or tanks, but a starship in the final frontier can't readily call for special forces against special threats, or for a quick retrofit of specific armaments...

Those double shields on the Scimitar were interesting indeed. 70% up, and still Picard can beam through easily enough? Why not do the classic, then, and beam in a few dozen photon torpedoes instead?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Why not do the classic, then, and beam in a few dozen photon torpedoes instead?

Lack of Creative Combat thinking? Harry Kim was creative in that department when he did that trick.

But I'm for active defenses like CIWS.

But the thing is, all Emitters have a Maximum ThroughPut.

The EPS that is fed to the Phasers or Shield Emitters must convert the EPS into equivalent energy for Phasers to generate Nadions or Shields to generate Gravitons.

There's only so much power you can feed to each system without shortening it's useful lifespan dramatically.

Most militaries don't push engines to the absolute maximum limit because it will shorten each engines life span. Ergo there are limits that they usually put in for manageable service life so that you're not constantly taking systems down for servicing or replacement.

StarFleet does the same thing and leave limits on the system so that critical parts don't wear down to quickly and blow out in a critical situation.

But there's nothing wrong with having multiple copies of the system and stacking them.

And when you're in space, the major thing holding you back in Star Trek tech is power generation.

If you have multiple types of Reactor Power Sources.

e.g.

Large Fusion Reactor
+
M/A-M Reactor
+
Artificial Quantum Singularity Reactor
+
Large Capacity Batteries like ('Condensed Energy Matrix' that was used in the VOY: "Warhead")

You can power ALOT of the systems and have plenty of Backup energy to power all the Offensive/Defensive/Mobility systems even if main power went out and you had to switch to batteries.

 

[Henoch]

Most militaries don't push engines to the absolute maximum limit because it will shorten each engines life span. Ergo there are limits that they usually put in for manageable service life so that you're not constantly taking systems down for servicing or replacement.

StarFleet does the same thing and leave limits on the system so that critical parts don't wear down to quickly and blow out in a critical situation.

Maybe for just cruising around, but in life and death combat, I'd expect captains push the ship to the limits. They don't think about shortening the service life in a combat situation. The service life will end if your ship is destroyed. Kirk (and even Spock) is aways pushing the ship to and past its limits. Phaser banks burning out, engines whining past the red line, shields obliterated. Besides, Scotty will fix it later. I don't see any Trek evidence of the tactic to save service life of the ship in high stress situations.

 

[Timo]

Well, "The Chase" at least does feature the claim that the repeated use of high warp by the E-D is outside the specs and will apparently eventually wreck the ship. Yet we saw nothing out of the usual for a TNG adventure in that episode, suggesting that Picard's use of high warp is contrary to ship-saving regulations in general. Perhaps this is behind the mishap in "Drumhead" and the maintenance needs in "Phantasms", too?

But running the ship to shreds and then returning to port for a bit of repair may be standard operating procedure in the big picture, even if the running-ragged bit warrants extra mention. It didn't seem to be that big an issue to do seemingly major core overhaul in those episodes.

I guess the interesting part here is the shields. Why are they always down until the last moment? Yet when they do go up, why is there no countdown for when they have to be dropped again? Is this another case of "The Manual says never raise shields, survival requires ignoring the manual, and the dockyards are perfectly familiar with the fact that nobody follows the Manual, and can easily cope with the resulting damage"?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I guess the interesting part here is the shields. Why are they always down until the last moment?

Rule of Dramatic Tension writing is a common Trope you see throughout Sci-Fi

Yet when they do go up, why is there no countdown for when they have to be dropped again?

The readout of the Shield % is the countdown based on hits to the shield, it's just non-linear and varies based on how strong each hit is towards the shields.

Is this another case of "The Manual says never raise shields, survival requires ignoring the manual, and the dockyards are perfectly familiar with the fact that nobody follows the Manual, and can easily cope with the resulting damage"?

More like OMG, we got caught with our pants down because of ___ reason and that's why we didn't raise the shield until ___ because of ___ reason.

 

[Timo]

Umm, that's not the interesting part...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Angry Fanboy]

A bubble shield would be my preferred option I think - better to keep the disruptor blasts at bay a hundred feet from the ship than letting them get close enough to touch by using some surface shielding system.

Stop the enemy at the moat rather than trying to stop them at the castle gates.

 

[Timo]

I wonder if "shields" is in fact the sum total of half a dozen defensive systems, one or three of which are variants of the hull polarizing / structural integrity field trick. All of the systems come to play either simultaneously or then at the shield computer's discretion, but only those that work against the threat of the moment are witnessed in action - the shield bubble may not flare in pretty colors when phased polarons pass clean through it, but a gasoline explosion at the hull indicates the polarizer is doing its job and protecting the ship.

Micromanaging the elements of the "shield" system is the one part of combat that the human(oid) crew isn't allowed to handle, due to their inherent inferiority at it. But they can choose maneuvers and offensive weapons and targets and the like, as those can be done with seconds to spare, rather than nanoseconds... And they can choose to hit the override button on the shield system, for the macroscopic decision of whether to be protected or not.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Agreed. The whole shields, weapons, targeting is pretty quaint when you give it too much thought. As if these starships on the bleeding edge of the unknown would be facing off against an enemy vessel, the bridge crew would see the other vessel's weapons ports light up, someone shout "they're firing", the captain order "raise shields", the tactical officer tap some buttons etc.

I'd venture that in the 24th century you wouldn't want actual people anywhere near the controls.

Better to let the computer with its faster than light processing speeds to coordinate the shields, weapons, helm etc. Let the crew sit back and relax (well, not relax but y'know...)

 

[Henoch]

Agreed. The whole shields, weapons, targeting is pretty quaint when you give it too much thought. As if these starships on the bleeding edge of the unknown would be facing off against an enemy vessel, the bridge crew would see the other vessel's weapons ports light up, someone shout "they're firing", the captain order "raise shields", the tactical officer tap some buttons etc.

I'd venture that in the 24th century you wouldn't want actual people anywhere near the controls.

Better to let the computer with its faster than light processing speeds to coordinate the shields, weapons, helm etc. Let the crew sit back and relax (well, not relax but y'know...)

Even in TOS, many times the deflector screens/shields snapped on automatically.

• The Changeling: SULU: Captain, shields just snapped on. Something heading in at multiwarp speeds.
• The Immunity Syndrome: KYLE: Captain, deflector shields just snapped on.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Even in TOS, many times the deflector screens/shields snapped on automatically.

• The Changeling: SULU: Captain, shields just snapped on. Something heading in at multiwarp speeds.
• The Immunity Syndrome: KYLE: Captain, deflector shields just snapped on.

True. You'd like to think that ships of the TNG/DS9/VOY era would have the same functionality then - if the computer/sensors detect a threat it's able to raise the shields automatically. I can't think of any examples of it happening off the top of my head though.

Again, I guess it comes down to crewmembers doing these things themselves making for better television.

 

[Timo]

Not doing it is probably the point, both dramatically and in-universe.

Raising of shields is an aggressive maneuver, especially if you then hand over control of the fight to your tactical computer / rabid Klingon Weapons Officer. Keeping them down sends a strong message. And that's a decision one can make at one's leisure, well in advance of any split-second exchanges of fire.

Automatic shield reaction happens in early TNG once: in "Arsenal of Freedom", the first attack of the EP-607 drone is preceded by Worf commenting on apparent auto-raising.

Worf: "Shields just came on. Deflectors also up. I'm picking up an object off the port bow. It's firing!"

It's clear that Worf didn't raise the shields. Not only does he first detect the bogie halfway into that sentence - Riker had just moments before ordered the initiation of a beaming process, which the shields now inconveniently block.

I cant recall any other auto-raisings in the 24th century, though. Possibly Picard felt that his big ship would not succumb to a sucker punch no matter what, so that the diplomatic aspects of shield handling could be given priority.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Early TNG, still a lot of TOS production/writing staff still in creative control - shields snapping on clearly still a thing. Looks like it went the way of the dinosaur when the new guard took over around 1989 onwards.

I've watched A LOT of TNG/DS9/VOY and I don't recall it happening.