Shelby

[Mojochi]

Just add her to the lengthy list of people who Riker puckered his bunghole over.

Edward Jellico
Sam Lavelle
Ro Laren
Reg Barclay
Tom Riker
His own father
& Shelby

You know, for a guy who's so frequently heralded as being laid back, cool & genial, he also sure does tend to often be a total douche canoe. I wouldn't even be surprised if his dickish bravado had played a part in failing to deescalate that Apgar shit, that nearly got him killed.

As for Shelby? I never had much issue with her. I think most people who do are just understandably falling prey to sympathizing with a main character, who is in a little conflict with her.

Sure, she's running a little fast & hard on the ambitious career track angle, but we don't know what she's been up to, or where. That may be the climate in her part of the fleet. She's seemingly the indispensable officer, where Borg are concerned, which wouldn't be easy to pull off, because she'd have to be piecing together tales of all the mystery encounters that no one had attributed to the Borg until J-25.

So she takes some lead out of turn, with Data & the captain. That may be the climate in her world too. Neither seemed to find it explicitly out of place, procedurally speaking. Riker just didn't like it, & made some noise because he could, but even though he outranks her, I actually don't recall it ever being stated that she's been assigned there, as a direct subordinate to him, until he takes her as XO. Before that she might just be an outside mission specialist

I cut her some slack. Even Riker himself is lamenting to his counselor about how he liked those same traits about himself, when he'd had them

 

[JesterFace]

It would have been cool if Shelby had appeared after TBOBW at some point.

('Descent' maybe?)

 

[Kor]

...
How was Shelby a "Borg expert" if she never encountered the Borg before the Jouret IV massacre? Since the Federation only knew what the Enterprise-D's J-25 encounter unearthed about the Borg, what was there for her to base her expertise on?
...

Why, all that research that had been carried out by Magnus and Erin Hansen, of course.

Kor

 

[JesterFace]

Why, all that research that had been carried out by Magnus and Erin Hansen, of course.

Kor

I live in a bubble where that never happened...
And the first contact with the Borg was in TNG.

 

[Sgt_G]

She was a Lieutenant Commander in Part 1 then Commander after Riker made her his new XO.

The rank doesn't automatically come with the position. I mean, did Riker pin captain pips on when he assumed command???

 

[Mojochi]

The rank doesn't automatically come with the position. I mean, did Riker pin captain pips on when he assumed command???

Yes. Picard is assumed dead. Riker doesn't assume command. He's given command, & he selects Shelby to be XO

 

[Sgt_G]

Okay, then. I stand corrected. I don't remember it that way, but it has been several years since I saw that episode. I won't claim advanced age as a factor in my faulty memory. That said, in today's military, Riker would not pin-on just to take command. Did Shelby keep her pips after all the dust settled???

 

[Mojochi]

Did Shelby keep her pips after all the dist settled???

No mention is made of it. In the final scene, both her & Riker are still wearing their promoted ranks. They're all talking about how Riker should have his pick of captain's chairs throughout the fleet after this, which means there's really no reason to assume he'd be anything but a captain from this point forward, so when he chose to stay onboard the D, someone likely must've told him, "Well, then that promotion to captain is rescinded "

But since it's very much assumed he is expected to remain at the rank (Despite choosing not to) Then I must make a similar assumption that she too is likely to remain at the rank, especially given the outcome of the mission wherein she'd held it. No reason to think she'd just head back down to Lt CMDR. At least Riker had a reason to head back down to 3 pips... a shitty one... but still

 

[Timo]

It's funny...

In "Best of Both Worlds", Picard is assumed dead (even though the heroes have their doubts) so when Riker is appointed Captain in his place, he gets promoted in rank.

In "Gambit", Picard is assumed dead (even though the heroes have their doubts) so when Riker is appointed Captain in his place, he doesn't get promoted in rank.

Might well be the promotion was just to boost general morale at a time of great crisis, then. And Shelby did well in that crisis, and would have little motivation to ask for demotion herself.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Guy Gardener]

If they replicate a new uniform every morning, the computer probably uses Riker's permanent/medical records to custom build the uniform to the wearers current needs, and specifications.

Not often, but more than once, crew had to have found out about their promotions, or a change in division, when picking their day's wears out of the replicator, before anyone in charge got a round to telling them.

 

[Mojochi]

Might well be the promotion was just to boost general morale at a time of great crisis, then.

That could be. It could be mission specific too. In Gambit, Riker is determined to solve the mystery of Picard's death, in lieu of heading off to their next mission. Admiral Chekote places the ship on detached duty, & leaves them to their own discretion. No need to appoint a captain at that moment, per say

Whereas in BoBW, he gets promoted to head the ship up in a crisis. He's got more experience with Borg than just about anyone at this point, & he has Shelby in tow, who is a Borg expert. Who better to move up to the top spot there, in this specific circumstance?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

After TPTB "forgot" about their agreement and Captain Shelby was mentioned in DS9, one of the books had to include a bit where it was explained that the newly-promoted Captain Shelby was another Starfleet officer named Shelby, not "our" one (who at the time was first officer of the Excalibur)

Why did they have to do that?

 

[Timo]

Because they (that is, Peter David) still wanted to get mileage out of a Commander Liz Shelby and could not have worked a Captain Liz Shelby into the storylines yet.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Terok Nor]

I never understood why she wasn't brought back. Hell she should've joined the crew permanently. I guess with Picard being rescued and Riker being first officer again there was no role for her but she was a good character I'd have liked to see more of.

I don't believe Shelby would ever be the captain of a "party ship" so I don't get what they were trying for with that DS9 reference.

 

[Makarov]

Riker was pretty patient with her I mean can you imagine if she pulled the same stuff on Jellico or even Picard, disregarding orders and going above their heads...

 

[Dukhat]

Shelby was obviously created as a character that the audience is supposed to hate, because she's constantly trying to one-up Riker, who is the hero. And with that, they did an excellent job.

The fundamental flaw of the Shelby character, however, is that she's too focused on advancing her career when she should have been worried far more about being turned into a Borgette. Her behavior in this situation is so ridiculously contrived.

 

[UnknownSample]

I never understood all this buzz surrounding this character, all the fondness, all the rumors she would be a regular, somehow. She seems like the kind of irritant character that appears for one episode, and is then dispensed with and gone. I see the need for characters we don't actually "like", but who have an interesting take on things. She's played well. I like the fact that she was a woman hothead, a capable one, showing a woman can take that role in life, without gender being an issue. The conflict's interesting up to a point, but still, an irritant.
----------------------------
This must have been a very hard ep to write. To fill the time while reports came in about the Borg (who have no personalities to write for) getting closer, they opted to have career conflict. While civilization might be about to end. It's admirable that they go on as usual, unflappable... they're trained to deal with crises, not panicking... but I'd think part of that would be putting aside any personal jockeying for position within Starfleet. But without that, what do you write about as the Borg get closer?

 

[Wingsley]

Riker was given a field promotion in the first act of BOBW Part 2 by Admiral Hanson. A field promotion is not a permanent commission. In today's American military, permanent promotions of officers (commissions) must be approved by the U.S. Senate. I would assume (no direct evidence) that the Federation Starfleet of Star Trek has a similar advise-and-consent system of civilian control over uniformed personnel.

So when the Borg crisis passed and Riker opted to stay, Picard resumed command of the Enterprise-D and Riker's fourth pip was history.

As for Shelby, the fate of her third pip would probably rest with the Federation, pending a recommendation from whoever assumed Admiral Hanson's post. Since he's never seen again, we can assume he was either killed, severely injured or assimilated by the Borg. There is a hint at the end of BOBW 2 that Shelby is going to go to work for the "task force" supposedly to salvage the shipwrecks at Wolf 359. She said "We'll have the fleet back up and running in less than a year." There's no direct evidence of it, but it seems likely the Federation made her (implied) field promotion permanent.

It is reasonable to assume that when a uniformed character receives a field promotion, that's not permanent. Riker's extra pip may not even assure him extra pay.

 

[The Wormhole]

Riker was given a field promotion in the first act of BOBW Part 2 by Admiral Hanson. A field promotion is not a permanent commission. In today's American military, permanent promotions of officers (commissions) must be approved by the U.S. Senate. I would assume (no direct evidence) that the Federation Starfleet of Star Trek has a similar advise-and-consent system of civilian control over uniformed personnel.

So when the Borg crisis passed and Riker opted to stay, Picard resumed command of the Enterprise-D and Riker's fourth pip was history.

As for Shelby, the fate of her third pip would probably rest with the Federation, pending a recommendation from whoever assumed Admiral Hanson's post. Since he's never seen again, we can assume he was either killed, severely injured or assimilated by the Borg. There is a hint at the end of BOBW 2 that Shelby is going to go to work for the "task force" supposedly to salvage the shipwrecks at Wolf 359. She said "We'll have the fleet back up and running in less than a year." There's no direct evidence of it, but it seems likely the Federation made her (implied) field promotion permanent.

It is reasonable to assume that when a uniformed character receives a field promotion, that's not permanent. Riker's extra pip may not even assure him extra pay.

Considering Riker was offered a promotion at the start of Part 1, it stands to reason that had he wanted the promotion it would have been made permanent by his request. The guy who saved the Earth is probably owed a favor.

 

[GNDN18]

Considering Riker was offered a promotion at the start of Part 1, it stands to reason that had he wanted the promotion it would have been made permanent by his request. The guy who saved the Earth is probably owed a favor.

True, but Riker was about as at good managing his career as Burt Reynolds was choosing parts.

 

[Mojochi]

She said "We'll have the fleet back up and running in less than a year." There's no direct evidence of it, but it seems likely the Federation made her (implied) field promotion permanent.

The more you dig into things like that which were said, the more insane it would seem for Riker to not take a command. I mean Picard is literally telling him that the fleet needs good captains, BEFORE Wolf 359. How many less do they have the day after that? 39 or 40? and here's the guy everybody is going to credit with turning the Borg back, & he's saying... "Nah... I'm good"

I mean, wouldn't you think that part of one's duty as a Starfleet officer would be to, you know... serve the fleet... & its best interests? Say for example, Starfleet Medical had been destroyed, & they asked Beverly to resume her former chair as its head, in the absence of those who were serving there, could she in good conscience turn them down?

That's kind of the position Will's in. Wolf 359 is essentially Starfleet's Pearl Harbor. It isn't just about him & what he wants... this week (As opposed to years ago when getting to command asap was what he wanted) I guess it's never explicitly stated as such, but they need him, don't they? & he is supposedly serving them. It's pretty disloyal to the fleet to not move up imho

 

[Groppler Zorn]

Was Shelby a LCDR or a CMDR?

Iirc she was a Lt Cdr when she came aboard the enterprise but Riker promoted her to Cdr when he was made captain.

Did others in this forum feel Dennehy's portrayal of Shelby came off as a competent professional or as sexy or both?

I thought she was competent, if a little over confident. But the enterprise crew could have used a little over confidence at that point...

How was Shelby a "Borg expert" if she never encountered the Borg before the Jouret IV massacre? Since the Federation only knew what the Enterprise-D's J-25 encounter unearthed about the Borg, what was there for her to base her expertise on?

This is where “regeneration” and the voyager episodes come into play I guess. The Hansens knew all about the Borg. As did the El Aurians. And there might have been clever people who put two and two together and realised that Starfleet encountered the Borg in the 22nd century. And the Borg will be on DSC soon enough so we’ll see them in the 23rd century too.

So it’s perfectly plausible that Shelby would know all about the Borg - enough to be considered a “Borg expert”.