She-Ra: Nature over Nurture

[Assimilated Tom]

I've recently rewatched The Secret of the Sword, in which He-Man discovers his sister Adora was kidnapped as a baby and raised by Hordak as a member of the Evil Horde. Upon being informed by He-Man that the Evil Horde is --- gasp! --- evil, and that He-Man is her brother, Adora breaks the Horde's brainwashing and becomes one of the good guys --- She-Ra, Pincess of Power.

When I was a kid, I just accepted that. However, re-watching it as an adult --- admittedly, no longer as a member of the target audience --- this seems like both a completely over-the-top embracing of nature over nuture (Shadow Weaver even says to Hordak, when Adora starts doubting the Horde, "Remember who she really is." I guess despite being raised by Hordak since she was a baby, she had those damned good guy genes.), and a missed character opportunity. I can accept that Adora would defect --- finding out that you were kidnapped by the folks who raised you and lied to your whole life has got to be a kick in the gut. However, she should be the most badass good guy around. That Horde training should be rearing it's ugly head on a regular basis, and I'd expect the other characters to have to talk She-Ra out of taking ruthless actions for the "greater good." That may be hard to do on a show for children, but I would think it should be doable, and prove educational. There is some precedent for such an approch in the Filmation continuity: in "Prince Adam No More", Adam tries to save the day as himself and fails, learning that it's more important to get the job done than to look good doing it.

That said, I think I could make the same criticism of Xena. Xena was way too good a good guy for a former bad guy. She should have been a lot quicker to kill the hell out of people.

What do you folks think?

• Could a hero that has to learn to be a good guy every episode work in a children's show? Or would this be too complex for young children?
• Would making the morally questionable hero female have negative consequences for the psychology of young girls, or raise the ire of femininsts?
• Did the Filmation She-Ra series teach children that nature trumps nuture? And if so, is this harmful?
• Most importantly, as an adult, would seeing a badass ends-justify-the-means She-Ra be totally awesome?

 

[Christopher]

That said, I think I could make the same criticism of Xena. Xena was way too good a good guy for a former bad guy. She should have been a lot quicker to kill the hell out of people.

Did you see the later seasons of the show? That's increasingly where she ended up going. Heck, even Gabrielle ended up there.

Could a hero that has to learn to be a good guy every episode work in a children's show? Or would this be too complex for young children?

It could work today; look at Prince Zuko's journey in Avatar: The Last Airbender, or Kevin in Ben 10: Alien Force and Ultimate Alien. But we're talking about an era when animation was only beginning its process of maturation. Filmation's shows were smart for their day, and He-Man/She-Ra in particular boasted up-and-coming talents like J. Michael Straczynski and Paul Dini, but this was an era when TV heroes -- especially Filmation heroes -- were as clean-cut and idealized and purely good as you could get.

Would making the morally questionable hero female have negative consequences for the psychology of young girls, or raise the ire of femininsts?

Not per se, I think, but if she'd been portrayed as someone who needed to be constantly taught a lesson by other characters, that might be seen as undermining her strength.

Did the Filmation She-Ra series teach children that nature trumps nuture? And if so, is this harmful?

I think it taught simply that there is such a thing as clear-cut goodness in the human heart, and that good endures despite any attempts to crush it. I don't think that's a harmful idea. If anything, I found it inspiring growing up. I had an unhappy childhood; I lost my mother when I was very young and I was badly bullied in school. So seeing Filmation's pure-hearted heroes, people who had power that they used only to help and protect and never to harm, was inspiring and comforting to me. I think we could use more of that kind of Filmation optimism today.

Most importantly, as an adult, would seeing a badass ends-justify-the-means She-Ra be totally awesome?

I don't think so. That kind of moral nihilism is anathema to what Filmation's shows stood for. It's also a hackneyed cliche in this day and age, so I don't see any value in revisiting that well once again.

Besides, the kind of character you're describing would pretty much require black leather, and I don't think that would flatter She-Ra.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Same thing happened to Jennifer "Pilot" Chase in Captain Power. She was part of Lord Dread's army before changing sides.

 

[Assimilated Tom]

That said, I think I could make the same criticism of Xena. Xena was way too good a good guy for a former bad guy. She should have been a lot quicker to kill the hell out of people.

Did you see the later seasons of the show? That's increasingly where she ended up going. Heck, even Gabrielle ended up there.

Somehow I misread "Gabrielle" as "Glimmer" and tried to find badass She-Ra episodes for a few minutes. I don't remember the later Xena episodes too well, but I do recall that Gabrielle was hot with the short hair, red leather, and sais.

Your point about "badass" being overdone is well-taken, although I do find the lack of badassery strange given the established backstory. As to your point about black leather, I don't know how well it'd work with She-Ra, but it would look hot on Force Captain Adora, who is way hotter than her heroic alter ego.

 

[Christopher]

...but it would look hot on Force Captain Adora, who is way hotter than her heroic alter ego.

Even though they look exactly the same aside from wardrobe and hair length? They don't even have different complexions like Adam and He-Man.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

There's a lot of unanswered question about the She-Ra cartoon.

Leech was dubbed "Evil Master of Power Suction", how'd he get that job?

Mantenna's name refers to his eye-stalks, right?

Was Shadow Weaver a Muslim or Orko's mom or what?

Since Hordak could change shape, did he ever turn into a giant dildo and fuck the shit out of Catra?

 

[Assimilated Tom]

Since Hordak could change shape, did he ever turn into a giant dildo and fuck the shit out of Catra?

It seemed pretty obvious to me that he was sleeping with Shadow Weaver. They've got the creepy surrogate parent thing going on with Adora, and they take rides together in Hordak's plane. They're totally doing it off-camera.

 

[hyzmarca]

The Evil Horde wasn't really that evil. Sure, they were bent on universal conquest, and I suppose that's a bad thing, but they weren't exactly bad rulers. They weren't needless cruel and all things being equal Etheria was pretty well off.

They're 80s cartoon villains, so they can't be puppy-raping evil, after all. They're more evil in the sense of decorating with skulls.

You could just as easily play She-Ra as a character with conflicted loyalties who finds it difficult to chose between the freedom that the Rebellion wants (the freedom to live in a medieval fantasy world without toilet paper or modern medicine) and the benefits that the Horde provides (industrialization, automation, clean running water, medicine, sanitation, longer lifespans, lower infant mortality rates, less famine, and overall a more comfortable existence).

It's not that she was ever evil. She wasn't. It's just that she thought that the Horde was good and that the rebellion was evil. And until she learned that she was kidnapped as a baby she had every reason to think that.

The truth is, of course, that neither are really evil and both are sort of questionable. The Horde has evil goals but produces noble ends. The REbellion has nobel goals but will cause untold suffering if they succeed.

 

[Assimilated Tom]

...but it would look hot on Force Captain Adora, who is way hotter than her heroic alter ego.

Even though they look exactly the same aside from wardrobe and hair length? They don't even have different complexions like Adam and He-Man.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Adora and Glimmer? The character models weren't very detailed aside from the costumes, unless a character had monstrous features (I include porn star moustaches).

To me, Adora and She-Ra look totally different. Partially it's the hair and wardrobe, which are the most distinguishing characteristics of toons, but I also think Adora's face is drawn with much more severity than She-Ra's. She-Ra always looks serene, whereas Adora looks pouty and pissed off... and pretty much ready to have her way with someone. I'd put her up with Sailor Mercury and Sailor Jupiter.

Ahem... perhaps a few too many details, but I trust I've made my point.

 

[Assimilated Tom]

The Evil Horde wasn't really that evil. Sure, they were bent on universal conquest, and I suppose that's a bad thing, but they weren't exactly bad rulers. They weren't needless cruel and all things being equal Etheria was pretty well off.

They kept slaves, who they mistreated --- for example, by throwing a guy who asked for water into a lake. They also destroyed a guy's house for saying taxes were too high.

These are the incidents that tipped Adora off that she was playing for the wrong team.

 

[Anwar]

for example, by throwing a guy who asked for water into a lake.

Well, he wanted water...

 

[Assimilated Tom]

for example, by throwing a guy who asked for water into a lake.

Well, he wanted water...

Hordesman!

 

[Christopher]

The Evil Horde wasn't really that evil. Sure, they were bent on universal conquest, and I suppose that's a bad thing, but they weren't exactly bad rulers. They weren't needless cruel and all things being equal Etheria was pretty well off.

They're 80s cartoon villains, so they can't be puppy-raping evil, after all. They're more evil in the sense of decorating with skulls.

I think you're forgetting that in the pilot movie/5-parter, the Horde had built a deadly superweapon that was powered by draining the will of innocent people and turning them into mindless slaves. I'd call that pretty evil. I mean, surely there are more practical ways of powering a death ray, like, say, a fusion reactor. The only reason to invent a weapon that's powered by the suffering and enslavement of human beings is if you're really into sadism for its own sake. It's pretty much the textbook definition of needless cruelty, and considering the high number of victims it demanded in order to power it up for even a single shot, it certainly would've been pretty bad for Etheria in the long run.

Even though they look exactly the same aside from wardrobe and hair length? They don't even have different complexions like Adam and He-Man.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Adora and Glimmer? The character models weren't very detailed aside from the costumes, unless a character had monstrous features (I include porn star moustaches).

No, their faces were still different despite the similar style. For instance, Adora/She-Ra's face was somewhat more angular than Glimmer's, with a wider, less rounded mouth and more pronounced eyelids. What I'm saying is that Adora and She-Ra, like Adam and He-Man, had exactly the same face and body. They were variations on the same character model, with only the hair and wardrobe rendered differently.

To me, Adora and She-Ra look totally different. Partially it's the hair and wardrobe, which are the most distinguishing characteristics of toons, but I also think Adora's face is drawn with much more severity than She-Ra's. She-Ra always looks serene, whereas Adora looks pouty and pissed off... and pretty much ready to have her way with someone.

I've never gotten that impression. The only thing that creates any real sense that their faces are different is that She-Ra has that elaborate headdress concealing her hairline and creating the impression of a higher forehead. And I think She-Ra in this image (mid-transformation, while she's calling her name, I believe) looks more severe than Adora does in the image I linked to above.

I'd put her up with Sailor Mercury and Sailor Jupiter.

Ahem... perhaps a few too many details, but I trust I've made my point.

I am pleased to say that any reference to the personality traits of Sailor Moon characters goes entirely over my head. I have no idea what you meant, and I suspect I'm better off that way.

 

[Assimilated Tom]

You may be right; the magical hairstyling certainly does make her look like she's related to Bert. I'd have to overlay transparent character cells to be sure.

However, I still maintain that She-Ra's disguise is better than He-Man's. Magically transformed hair > rub-on tan. Changing hairstyles and accessories works for Superman, after all. I present my impression that She-Ra looks different than Adora, even if their faces are the same, as evidence.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Peace, not Etheriapartheid!

I disliked how the toys said Hordak was Ruthless Leader of Evil Horde, then the lame cartoon has him taking orders from a gawddamned cloud! A CLOUD? What is this, Fantastic Four 2?

 

[DonIago]

Someone hasn't seen "Obsession" in far too long.

 

[Christopher]

However, I still maintain that She-Ra's disguise is better than He-Man's.

I don't think I ever claimed that He-Man's disguise was anything other than awful.

 

[Assimilated Tom]

I disliked how the toys said Hordak was Ruthless Leader of Evil Horde, then the lame cartoon has him taking orders from a gawddamned cloud! A CLOUD? What is this, Fantastic Four 2?

You mean, from a giant freaking robot or cyborg who hangs out in a cloud.

 

[Assimilated Tom]

However, I still maintain that She-Ra's disguise is better than He-Man's.

I don't think I ever claimed that He-Man's disguise was anything other than awful.

I will concede that point; however, you did imply that He-Man's disguise was better than She-Ra's:

...but it would look hot on Force Captain Adora, who is way hotter than her heroic alter ego.

Even though they look exactly the same aside from wardrobe and hair length? They don't even have different complexions like Adam and He-Man.

Emphasis mine.

 

[Christopher]

I disliked how the toys said Hordak was Ruthless Leader of Evil Horde, then the lame cartoon has him taking orders from a gawddamned cloud! A CLOUD? What is this, Fantastic Four 2?

You mean, from a giant freaking robot or cyborg who hangs out in a cloud.

Err, are you talking about Stampede from BraveStarr, the giant creature that Tex Hex took his orders from? I don't recall Hordak answering to such an entity.