I'm now all the way up to "One Little Ship" but haven't had time to write anything up here. Hopefully will have time soon.
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
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I can't wait for some discussion of "Beyond the Stars." I have a feeling people will tend to feel strongly about this one, whether they like it or not.
In this episode we finally learn...
"Who Mourns for Morn?"
Absolutely brilliant stuff. Was the title a deliberate call-back to "Who Mourns for Adonais?" I hope so.
Anyway, we learn that Morn has died, quite tragically, and he's made Quark his sole beneficiary. Great Quark/Odo stuff here. The painting from "In the Cards" returns.
This was a great comedy episode because, for the most part, the actors played it entirely straight. I don't have too much substantive to say, other than that I really liked this one.
"Who Mourns for Morn?"
Absolutely brilliant stuff. Was the title a deliberate call-back to "Who Mourns for Adonais?" I hope so.
Anyway, we learn that Morn has died, quite tragically, and he's made Quark his sole beneficiary. Great Quark/Odo stuff here. The painting from "In the Cards" returns.
This was a great comedy episode because, for the most part, the actors played it entirely straight. I don't have too much substantive to say, other than that I really liked this one.
I'd say Who Mourns for Morn? is an above average episode. It's ultimately fluff, but it's very competently executed fluff.
It does have some genuine laughs in it as well - "What are you doing in MY mud?" "And it's all yours." "Morn was a prince?!"
It does have some genuine laughs in it as well - "What are you doing in MY mud?" "And it's all yours." "Morn was a prince?!"
I love the whole "keeping the chair warm for Morn" bit. Ah, Quark, milking a friend's death for profit. Don't ever change.
^ The poor fool actually thought Quark cared about him. 
Well, let's see how much time I have to write these up. I'm about four episodes behind, and I have more and more to say about each one. Let's start with...
"Far Beyond the Stars"
This is clearly a special episode. I don't mean that in the cheesy, Diff'rent Strokes "very special episode" sense, like the one where Gordon Jump shows Arnold and Dudley pornographic cartoons (that one's still burned into my memory 30 years later), but in the sense that everyone involved put just a little more effort into it because they knew it was something different.
There are really two things going on in FBTS: the retro-1950s look of the episode, and the underlying story, which has an obvious social component.
First things first: this episode looks incredible! It makes me wish that someone would pitch a Mad Men-type show, but instead of being about ad men in the 1960s it would be about a scifi mag in the 1950s. Everything about the episode is absolutely gorgeous.
Second, it's great to see the "alien" cast members out of their makeup, and to see everyone in street clothes. I IDed most of the "aliens" based on their voices. J.G. Hertzler reminded me of someone I knew, and it took me a while to remember that it was a semi-homeless guy who used to hang out at me at work a long, long time ago. Ironically, given what Hertlzer's character does, he was also an artist, and figured in my very short and incredibly un-lucrative career as an art dealer. But that's another story.
I thought Cirroc Lofton's character's look was spot-on, too, with the straightened hair and mustache. He looked a lot like a hustler in the 1950s would have. This might have been the best episode of anything if they'd have called him Rinehart as a nod to Invisible Man. There are certainly some thematic similarities to the novel in the story of Benny Russell.
Which leads us to the real question: is this a good story? I say yes--it's incredibly powerful, and among the best of what Trek is capable of. Instead of talking about racism by using clumsy allegory ("Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"), FBTS tackles it face-on, in all its inhumanity and brutality. The scene where the police beat Russell is among the more brutal in all of Trek because it's so relatable, and it deserves to be. While we're talking injustice, sexism is also brought up. I'd say this isn't being preachy, because if you're going to tell an honest story about life in this period, you have to acknowledge the very real racial and sex-based barriers to achievement.
Sociologically, the episode gets it right by having two "successful" black men as foils to Russell: the street hustler Jimmy and the baseball player Willie Hawkins. Michael Dorn, by the way, is incredible without the makeup, and I really wish I could see him in more stuff where he gets to play a human.
The real power of the episode, is that it takes a sociological and historical concept, racism, and makes it biographical. Obviously the viewer, who is a sci-fi fan, is going to empathize with Benny Russell, and the cruelty of the world that can't allow him to share his stories is more apparent than it would be in a textbook. It's a great story.
From a Trek perspective, I've got a few quibbles. I wouldn't have set it up as a prophetic vision/synaptic potential thingie. Instead, I'd have shifted the focus just slightly, to Jake. Maybe he finds a Benny Russell manuscript, or maybe he finds a reference to the lost work of an obscure sci-fi writer of the 1950s, and then we get the story "told" by the DS9 cast. I'd also cut the preacher character and the references to the prophets, which to me take a little away from Benny Russell. Yes, maybe he's writing about DS9 because he's inspired by the wormhole prophets...or maybe he's just a very smart guy who can see a better future.
In any event, these are minor quibbles, and I think the episode is a triumph as it is. One of my favorites so far.
I'm eager to hear what other people think.
"Far Beyond the Stars"
This is clearly a special episode. I don't mean that in the cheesy, Diff'rent Strokes "very special episode" sense, like the one where Gordon Jump shows Arnold and Dudley pornographic cartoons (that one's still burned into my memory 30 years later), but in the sense that everyone involved put just a little more effort into it because they knew it was something different.
There are really two things going on in FBTS: the retro-1950s look of the episode, and the underlying story, which has an obvious social component.
First things first: this episode looks incredible! It makes me wish that someone would pitch a Mad Men-type show, but instead of being about ad men in the 1960s it would be about a scifi mag in the 1950s. Everything about the episode is absolutely gorgeous.
Second, it's great to see the "alien" cast members out of their makeup, and to see everyone in street clothes. I IDed most of the "aliens" based on their voices. J.G. Hertzler reminded me of someone I knew, and it took me a while to remember that it was a semi-homeless guy who used to hang out at me at work a long, long time ago. Ironically, given what Hertlzer's character does, he was also an artist, and figured in my very short and incredibly un-lucrative career as an art dealer. But that's another story.
I thought Cirroc Lofton's character's look was spot-on, too, with the straightened hair and mustache. He looked a lot like a hustler in the 1950s would have. This might have been the best episode of anything if they'd have called him Rinehart as a nod to Invisible Man. There are certainly some thematic similarities to the novel in the story of Benny Russell.
Which leads us to the real question: is this a good story? I say yes--it's incredibly powerful, and among the best of what Trek is capable of. Instead of talking about racism by using clumsy allegory ("Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"), FBTS tackles it face-on, in all its inhumanity and brutality. The scene where the police beat Russell is among the more brutal in all of Trek because it's so relatable, and it deserves to be. While we're talking injustice, sexism is also brought up. I'd say this isn't being preachy, because if you're going to tell an honest story about life in this period, you have to acknowledge the very real racial and sex-based barriers to achievement.
Sociologically, the episode gets it right by having two "successful" black men as foils to Russell: the street hustler Jimmy and the baseball player Willie Hawkins. Michael Dorn, by the way, is incredible without the makeup, and I really wish I could see him in more stuff where he gets to play a human.
The real power of the episode, is that it takes a sociological and historical concept, racism, and makes it biographical. Obviously the viewer, who is a sci-fi fan, is going to empathize with Benny Russell, and the cruelty of the world that can't allow him to share his stories is more apparent than it would be in a textbook. It's a great story.
From a Trek perspective, I've got a few quibbles. I wouldn't have set it up as a prophetic vision/synaptic potential thingie. Instead, I'd have shifted the focus just slightly, to Jake. Maybe he finds a Benny Russell manuscript, or maybe he finds a reference to the lost work of an obscure sci-fi writer of the 1950s, and then we get the story "told" by the DS9 cast. I'd also cut the preacher character and the references to the prophets, which to me take a little away from Benny Russell. Yes, maybe he's writing about DS9 because he's inspired by the wormhole prophets...or maybe he's just a very smart guy who can see a better future.
In any event, these are minor quibbles, and I think the episode is a triumph as it is. One of my favorites so far.
I'm eager to hear what other people think.
Now that I've looked at the big picture, let's look at...
"One Little Ship"
From the blurb, I thought this was going to be an awful episode. I vividly imagined it as a Voyager re-tread. Stick Seven, Torres, and the Doctor in the Delta Flyer, substitute the Malon or forehead alien of the week for the Jem'Hadar, and you could pretty much do the same story.
But this was actually a very good episode. We got some new wrinkles in the Jem'Hadar, and two memorable Jem'Hadar characters, so the story got told in a way that was DS9-specific. There were also some good Bashir/O'Brien scenes, and no episode with them can be all bad.
Avery Brooks seems to have turned a corner as Sisko. After six seasons, I'm really starting to like him. His steely determination and cunning here are pitch-perfect, and I love how he senses the divisions between the First and Second and plays on them.
In the best Trek tradition, the episode ends with some good comic riffing, as Odo and Quark join forces to burst O'Brien and Bashir's stones a bit. And they say he has no sense of humor!
"One Little Ship"
From the blurb, I thought this was going to be an awful episode. I vividly imagined it as a Voyager re-tread. Stick Seven, Torres, and the Doctor in the Delta Flyer, substitute the Malon or forehead alien of the week for the Jem'Hadar, and you could pretty much do the same story.
But this was actually a very good episode. We got some new wrinkles in the Jem'Hadar, and two memorable Jem'Hadar characters, so the story got told in a way that was DS9-specific. There were also some good Bashir/O'Brien scenes, and no episode with them can be all bad.
Avery Brooks seems to have turned a corner as Sisko. After six seasons, I'm really starting to like him. His steely determination and cunning here are pitch-perfect, and I love how he senses the divisions between the First and Second and plays on them.
In the best Trek tradition, the episode ends with some good comic riffing, as Odo and Quark join forces to burst O'Brien and Bashir's stones a bit. And they say he has no sense of humor!
Then I watched...
"Honor Among Thieves"
Not totally sure if this is an official "O'Brien Must Suffer" episode. He goes undercover and sends a man that be befriends to his death, so I think it qualifies.
This wasn't a bad episode, and was definitely a change of pace. I got very heavy Reservoir Dogs and Donny Brasco vibes from it. It could have ended with O'Brien saying, "I'm a cop" to a mortally-wounded Bilby just before being beamed out.
"Honor Among Thieves"
Not totally sure if this is an official "O'Brien Must Suffer" episode. He goes undercover and sends a man that be befriends to his death, so I think it qualifies.
This wasn't a bad episode, and was definitely a change of pace. I got very heavy Reservoir Dogs and Donny Brasco vibes from it. It could have ended with O'Brien saying, "I'm a cop" to a mortally-wounded Bilby just before being beamed out.
"Far Beyond the Stars"...well...I used to love it, but then I saw another episode after it, and what happened there was so utterly against the spirit of Star Trek that it made me hate this episode.
That was "Badda Bing, Badda Bang." Sisko's callousness about the potential death of Vic--which by then the Trek viewer would realize is equivalent to the death of VOY's Doctor, a sentient alien lifeform--because of the race Vic was programmed to be, utterly ruined everything Sisko had stood for until then: the idea that race no longer mattered and was no longer even worthy of a mention in the 24th century. It was bigoted, petty, and absolutely ruined the future that we had seen up until that point.
To the above, are you kidding? Sisko's
Vic-hate was AWESOME. The only thing that sucked was he had to come around in the end. Ugh, I hated Vic. Never I have a felt a character had been so shoved down viewer's throats as him. And I'm sorry, but no way was Vic the same as VOY's Doctor. The Doctor was a fully realized person. Vic was not.
Vic was certainly "younger" in terms of his sentience than the Doctor, but he was growing up and becoming more than he was programmed to be. That made it even worse to me what Sisko wanted to do--like killing a child. 
But even if you don't like Vic, the type of hate Sisko had wasn't even based on meeting Vic, knowing Vic, or judging Vic by the content of his character. It was a purely bigoted decision and that was disgusting and un-Trek-like. And to be willing to let Vic die because of that kind of attitude...reprehensible.
But even if you don't like Vic, the type of hate Sisko had wasn't even based on meeting Vic, knowing Vic, or judging Vic by the content of his character. It was a purely bigoted decision and that was disgusting and un-Trek-like. And to be willing to let Vic die because of that kind of attitude...reprehensible.
Got to disagree with you on this one. A lot of people think Far Beyond the Stars is among the franchises' best, but to me it's just a slightly above average episode.
IMO, it's just another example of Trek getting on it's high horse and telling everyone that racism is bad. Do they honestly think that Trek fans are so bigoted that they need this message beat into their heads time and time again?
And the episode itself has problems for me - 1.) Sisko's self-doubt comes out of nowhere. It was created specifically for this episode so they could tell their "racism is bad" story. If he been showing signs of it beforehand, it would have been more believable. 2.) The whole thing was a vision from the Prophets, but what were they trying to tell Sisko? To fight the good fight? Again, it's a weak reason used to tell the story. 3.) The over-acting! Armin Shimerman is usually one of the best actors in the cast. However, without the Quark makeup, he overdoes everything. And Avery Brooks! I've defended his acting up to now, even when many others think it's way overdone. However, "over-the-top" doesn't begin to describe what he does at the episode's climatic moment. He chews the scenery so bad it embarrasses me every time I see it and that really harms the episode.
I have no problem with the intent of saying "racism is bad," who does in this day and age. But the execution of it in this episode left a lot to be desired.
I agree. Whether you like Vic or not as a character, I don't see how anyone can justify Sisko hating him based solely on his race.
This one is a good, fun ride. I most especially like how the main problem of the episode is the Jem'Hadar attack, not the fact that three of them have been miniaturized. The drama comes from the characters in a zany situation, not the zany situation itself.
A watchable, but average episode that's saved mostly by Colm Meaney's acting skills.
It's very cliched. Undercover cop enters crime organization. Been done. Cop develops feelings for his target. Also been done. Cop feels awful when target is killed. Also been done.
I feel bad for Bilby's family, but I can't muster up much sympathy for Bilby himself, even though the episode desperately wants me to. He freely choose this lifestyle, they didn't. He's wholly responsible for his bad end.
Of course, a future episode also destroys my sympathy for his wife - Prodigal Daughter - when she chooses to blackmail Ezri's family simply because she wants more money.
What I especially liked about "Far Beyond the Stars," aside from what has been mentioned above, is the fact that the shadow of the Dominion hangs over everything in both times.
Whatever their intentions, the Founders are practical racists. As opposed to the ultra-pluralistic Federation, the Dominion seems to base its social order on everyone knowing his place, e.g., the Vorta are the administrators/ambassadors, the Jem'hadaar are the soldiers, etc. It's reminiscent of Plato's ideal Republic, with of course the most glaring difference being that it's not merit based but an inherited caste system.
So, where would humans factor into the Dominion's system if the Alpha Quadrant were to one day succumb? Probably, they would occupy a position, like the Vorta, of relative privilege and prestige. But whatever their caste, they would never be allowed to deviate from it, and most likely they would be genetically engineered not to wish to.
And since the prospect of surrender has already been brought up this season, the Prophets could not send a more poignant message than, "Look to the past. This could happen again."
Whatever their intentions, the Founders are practical racists. As opposed to the ultra-pluralistic Federation, the Dominion seems to base its social order on everyone knowing his place, e.g., the Vorta are the administrators/ambassadors, the Jem'hadaar are the soldiers, etc. It's reminiscent of Plato's ideal Republic, with of course the most glaring difference being that it's not merit based but an inherited caste system.
So, where would humans factor into the Dominion's system if the Alpha Quadrant were to one day succumb? Probably, they would occupy a position, like the Vorta, of relative privilege and prestige. But whatever their caste, they would never be allowed to deviate from it, and most likely they would be genetically engineered not to wish to.
And since the prospect of surrender has already been brought up this season, the Prophets could not send a more poignant message than, "Look to the past. This could happen again."
^ Very interesting point that I hadn't considered. Good stuff.
FWIW, I don't personally believe that
Vic was sentient. But to be fair, that could be my hate-on for him talking, heh. I do think Sisko's reaction was a bit off, especially when he used the term "our people." That took me out of the trek-verse. I might expect a black man of our time period to possibly use that term, but in ST, I would expect humanity is well past the point of "white, black, aisan, etc." labels and we're all just human. I guess you could argue his usage stems from his experience in FBTS (which I thought was one of Trek's shining moments, just for the record), but it struck a sour note for me, I must say. Plenty of other reasons to hate Vic. I wish Sisko had just been pissed they were wasting all this time trying to "save" a fictional character while there was a war going on. That would have made sense. 
And better yet...
Vic can't even control his race, any more than anyone! And what he is is a photonic being--a hologram. If Sisko had to get mad at someone, he should've sent Felix a nastygram. Not taken revenge on a hologram who, as it turned out, had become sentient through no fault of his own.
Not only that...I suspect that as open as we saw Vic being, he would've responded courteously had Sisko approached him and asked to have a frank conversation on the subject. But I guess we should be glad that never happened, because a mature handling of racial subjects is still (groan) far beyond humanity.
Not only that...I suspect that as open as we saw Vic being, he would've responded courteously had Sisko approached him and asked to have a frank conversation on the subject. But I guess we should be glad that never happened, because a mature handling of racial subjects is still (groan) far beyond humanity.
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