Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

[Shatnertage]

It's getting brighter in here. Must lit...

"By Inferno's Light"

I really liked the conclusion here, but because of lots of work stuff I don't have much time to share my thoughts. Lots of stuff happening this week, most of it good, and all of it requiring a lot of my time.

Lots going on here. I'll start with Dukat (or, if you say his title and name really fast, "Goldilocks"), who does an epic heel turn and joins the Dominion. I don't totally buy him as negotiating on behalf of the civilian government with the Dominion, since he's been fighting against them for the past year, but maybe I missed the part that said this was a hostile takeover.

When they turned for Cardassia, Sisko should have said, "Told you so!"

The Bashir Changeling's plan was foiled. Why exactly did they want to nuke the Bajoran system, anyway? Seems like overkill, but I guess they wanted to avoid a big space battle with the Feds, Rommies, and Klingons.

Back at prison 371, Worf is fighting for his honor and then some. I liked claustrophobic Garak, though he shouldn't have been bugged by the heat--he should have found it comforting. I'd have said that the tunnel was on the edge of the prison and really cold, which we know would have been (more) torment for poor Garak.

RealMartok is actually pretty cool. And he seems to like Worf and be a nice guy.

Also, good for the Alpha Jem'Hadar not wanting to kill Worf, because he couldn't defeat him.

They wrapped up the episode, in best TOS tradition, with good-natured ribbing between Bashir and O'Brien, because what better way to welcome your best friend back from a month in a Dominion prison than by telling him what a dick he is?

Good stuff. I found this the most riveting episode yet in terms of plot--very well put together.

 

[Admiral Shran]

This two-parter is definitely among my favorites of the entire franchise. The fact that the whole Trek universe in upended in the TEASER alone is unbelievable.

As for the Dominion takeover, I think it was a sort of hostile takeover as we have Dukat trying to placate and assure the Cardassian populace about it over the planet's many public viewscreens at one point.

And about the nuking of the Bajoran system - what better way to eliminate any possible threat to a Dominion control of the Wormhole. It would not only wipe out the Federation and Klingon fleets (and the late arriving Romulan one as well), but also destroy any possible base within the vicinity that the Dominion wouldn't control.

Speaking of the Romulans - the scene where the fleet of Warbirds decloaks and requests to join the Fed/Klingon fleet gives me goosebumps every time.

 

[MacLeod]

^Agreed, espically as you don't see it coming with the Romulans.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

Once you finish with the series, Shatnertage, I highly suggest that you look for SFDebris' excellent video review of Let He Who Is Without Sin.... (currently it's not available, but he's working on getting everything restored). You have to wait until after you finish, however, because all his reviews contain spoilers for future episodes. And, the Let He Who Is Without Sin... one contains one truly MASSIVE one!

I just watched this and almost fell out of my chair laughing.

And I hadn't seen so much of this episode since like 1997, I'd forgotten how painfully bad it was.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Hello? Anybody out there?

Do I need to start reviewing an 80s comedy in here as well?

 

[Shatnertage]

No, I've just fallen way behind on watching DS9. Mostly it's because I've gotten the manuscript of my latest book back from the editor and have been working on what I hope is the final draft. Also working on a length feature piece for the weekly I write for, teaching a class, and trying to get my new site off the ground. Busy times.

But yes, I've been holding out on everyone. I've got two episodes I've seen but not discussed, so here goes:

"Doctor Bashir, I Presume"

I'm pretty pumped about this one going in. It's a clearly a comedy episode with Robert Picardo guest starring. What more could you ask for?

And for the first three acts, it's a great comedy. Alexander Siddig does the Hugh Grant thing to perfection, and Dr. Zimmerman is a perfect foil for him. He's also a perfect foil for Rom vis a vis Leeta. And I'm such a Robert Picardo fan that he could read the phone book and I'd be happy.

For a moment, Alexander Siddig even plays the EMH when Zimmerman loads his physical parameters into the program before putting in the software for the LMH. My Trek Trivia alarm goes off, and I file away somewhere that three actors that I'm aware of have played "our" EMH: Picardo, Siddig, and Jeri Ryan. Yes, It was a different EMH in this show, but same program, so it kind of counts.

Then we get to meet Bashir's dad Richard, who is played by a guy from Seinfeld. Richard seems like a pretty cool guy to me, with all of his schemes, but I'm a guy who likes schemes these days. I can actually empathize a little with Bashir here for personal reasons.

His mom Amsha's pretty nice, though. I was actually at UCLA at the same time as the woman who played her (she was an anthro prof there), though as a history grad student I didn't have anything to do with the anthro department. Jaleel White was an undergrad when I was there, too, so there was a lot of talent on that campus.

I absolutely LOVED (needed to shout) those interviews between Zimmerman and the rest of the crew about Bashir. This is Comedy Trek at its finest.

Then things go absolutely off the rails. Turns out Bashir's a genetic superman. I'd seen references to this, so it wasn't a total surprise, but according to MA it was a real surprise to Siddig. And while it kind of works within the drama of this episode, it doesn't make a ton of sense within what we know about the Trek universe. If the penalty for creating augments really is a two-year vacation in New Zealand, the Federation should be awash in augments pretty soon. Things certainly have gotten much more laid back since Arik Soong's day, that's for sure.

Within the context of the story, it's touching that Richard finally steps up and takes responsibility for his actions, though it's strange that Bashir just continues like nothing had happened.

Oh, and there was a thread complaining about how Voyager abused DNA, and even though I'm not a biologist, I'm pretty sure that DNA doesn't work the way this episode thinks it does.

I really liked this episode, though. It did a good job of weaving comedy and drama together, and made the Rom/Leeta hookup make sense.

I'll be posting about "A Simple Investigation" when I get the chance.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Dammit, I had already hijacked TheGodBen's thread with reviews of The Golden Girls; I was going to hijack this one with ones on The Dukes of Hazzard. Ah, well.

I also really like Doctor Bashir, I Presume. I think it's great that they took Bashir in this direction, even if (like you say) it kind of comes out of nowhere. There are some hints that something isn't quite right about him in earlier episodes, however, but they're not very memorable. For instance, him deliberately messing up on his medical school final exam could be explained as him not wanting to draw attention to his genetically engineered intellect. And, in one episode (I don't remember which) he says that there is no one on Earth that he has any desire to talk to - possibly hinting at a secret he's keeping. Like I said, not much to go on, but it does kind of work with him now being an Augment.

Now, a lot of people don't like the Rom storyline, but I love it. That's because I'm a fan of Rom/Leeta. The way I see it, if someone like Rom can get a woman like Leeta, then there is indeed hope for the future of humanity and isn't that what Star Trek is all about?

 

[Athena28]

It's getting brighter in here. Must lit...

"By Inferno's Light"

I really liked the conclusion here, but because of lots of work stuff I don't have much time to share my thoughts. Lots of stuff happening this week, most of it good, and all of it requiring a lot of my time...

Wonderful ep. I loved the whole Garak thing.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

This was the idea of someone here, so I cannot take credit for it, but I think it would have been more impactful had Julian not known about it himself. If his parents had been keeping it from him as well as the rest of the world. That way, we could have seen how the news that he's not really "all that" and that all this time he was really cheating the system affected him.

As it was, though, I think it's an interesting development for Bashir overall. Sure, it's a retcon on the writers part (I do NOT think this was planned from the start) though it's not the big a stretch based on what we know about Julian thus far. However, I must say...

Spoiler: How this plays out for Bashir

I kind of think he starts playing it too cocky as the series goes on. He gets a bit smug at times about being super human, especially in light of the fact that he's only that way cause his parents broke the law.

And once again, we get slap on the wrist punishments from the Feds.

 

[Athena28]

No, I've just fallen way behind on watching DS9. Mostly it's because I've gotten the manuscript of my latest book back from the editor and have been working on what I hope is the final draft. Also working on a length feature piece for the weekly I write for, teaching a class, and trying to get my new site off the ground. Busy times.

But yes, I've been holding out on everyone. I've got two episodes I've seen but not discussed, so here goes:

"Doctor Bashir, I Presume"

I'm pretty pumped about this one going in. It's a clearly a comedy episode with Robert Picardo guest starring. What more could you ask for?...

Zimmerman, Rom & Leeta, plus the genetic enhancement of Bashir. Three good storylines.

 

[Shatnertage]

I still haven't watched anything new, but I have a few minutes to write up...

"A Simple Investigation"

This was on the surface a generic romance of the week, made a little less generic because Odo hasn't had a (successful) romance before. I've still got a lot of questions about whether a changeling could even be sexually interested in a humanoid, but since there are no answers I won't ask them.

For me the interesting part of this story is the conclusion. The standard "mysterious woman is hiding something" is an old noir trope, but they went in a Dickian direction with this one: the woman is actually a detective who doesn't even know she's a detective. Basically it's sort of "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" (Total Recall) with Arissa, not Odo, as the protagonist.

That, and I liked the idea of a species of forehead aliens who go around wearing hoodies all the time.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I thought Bashir being genetically engineered was a good twist. Though obviously not something they planned from the beginning, it actually worked given what we know about him. The only thing I felt the episode was lacking was Garak's reaction to the reveal. I would really have loved to see what he thought about, but we don't even get to hear him commenting on it until much later.

As for "A Simple Investigation," I always thought that episode was a way to establish that he can/would have a sexual relationship with a humaniod, to sort of pave the way for his pairing with Kira. It wasn't bad for a romance of the week though.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I like A Simple Investigation. Yeah, it's another romance-of-the-week, but it's easily the best one that Trek ever did. I think it works so well because Odo's romantic "backstory" has actually been built up somewhat beforehand, so it's really nice to see him actually have some for a change.

 

[Shatnertage]

I decided to try something different when I watched...

"Business as Usual"

Instead of waiting until everyone was asleep to watch DS9, we watched it during dinner. That might be why I didn't catch a few things, since dinnertime with little kids is pretty chaotic. It was most ironic that we have been having the exact same problem that O'Brien has in this episode--the little one tends to cry when she's not being held. In fact, I don't know exactly how he solved the problem since she was crying quite a bit towards the end.

From what I saw, this episode was a dud. The whole premise--gun-running is bad--seemed pretty obvious, though there was a little complication with Kira's revelation that without weapons smugglers the Bajoran resistance would have been crushed. There still felt like there was something missing about the episode, and as far as Quark episodes go I'd rate this one at the bottom, well below something like "Profit and Loss," which explored some of the same themes in a better way.

I just wasn't feeling this one.

 

[MacLeod]

Might be thinking of another episode, but wasn't it Worf at the end.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Business as Usual is another one I really don't care for. Thankfully, it's no where near as bad as Bar Association, but it's still pretty bad, IMO.

Again, Quark is unfairly treated like a villain. Yes, he's dealing weapons, but for all we know, they actually are being used for self-defense, just like he claims to Dax at one point. Given that he has SERIOUS moral qualms once he learns that someone is going to use them for a massive offensive attack, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

Speaking of Dax, the scene where Quark looks for her to offer him some absolution and she treats him like the scum of creation really annoys me. You know, for a woman who once took part in a Klingon blood feud that she was actually not part of, I think she's being pretty hypocritical in her denunciations of Quark's activities.

QUARK: I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed in you. I thought you, of all people, would understand.
DAX: Understand what? That you've finally shown how despicable you truly are? That you don't care how many people die as long as you make a profit.

You know Dax, he's not the one who once helped murder an unarmed man in cold blood. That would be you. She, and all the others who give him the cold shoulder, also never seem to have a problem killing people (Cardassians, Klingons, Jem'Hadar) when the situation calls for it. They also don't seem to mind having the station's phaser lockers fully stocked and the phaser banks and photon launchers fully armed.

Other people who I just don't understand in this episode are Sisko and Kira. Sisko literally poisoned a planet a few episodes back. But, weapons dealing? That's simply a step too far for him, apparently. And Kira, who admits that weapons dealers (including the one Quark works with!) were crucial to the Resistance, just goes along with Quark's treatment and adds to it.

Quark, out of desperation, makes a deal with the devil here, true. But once he sees what that deal entails, he does the right thing and does what is necessary. Then, everyone (especially Dax) acts like they were never at fault throughout the episode. I just don't get it.

I like Quark. That's why I don't like it when the writers treat him this way. It's not fair to the character. For example - I think it's bias to say that Quark is horrified by Gaila and Hagath because "the Federation has rubbed off on him." Before the Federation even had a presence on the station, Quark offered Bajorans a means to escape the cruel jobs in ore processing. Also, he sold food to them at wholesale prices. Quark didn't need Federation busy-bodies to tell him to do any of these things; he was naturally inclined to be at least semi-charitable from the very beginning.

 

[Shatnertage]

I'm just glad that Gaila got so much better looking by the time they made the 2009 movie.

 

[JaxsBrokenHeart]

I almost wonder if this episode would have been better the weapons dealer aspect being revealed only to Quark at the halfway point, the and rest of the episode his him trying to get out of it without pissing off his associates or letting any of Starfleet find out. Yeah, its not much, but its better than Starfleet disgust at Quark which by season 5 seemed a bit played out and unnecessary.

Spoiler: Season Six Episode

I would like to believe that the scene of Sisko getting really pissed and threatening Quark was playing in the latter's head when Ben was resorting to bribing him circa "In the Pale Moonight". With that in mind, you can just see how much Quark is enjoying seeing the self righteous captain off his high horse and getting dirty. "Deep down everybody's a Ferengi" indeed.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I almost wonder if this episode would have been better the weapons dealer aspect being revealed only to Quark at the halfway point, the and rest of the episode his him trying to get out of it without pissing off his associates or letting any of Starfleet find out. Yeah, its not much, but its better than Starfleet disgust at Quark which by season 5 seemed a bit played out and unnecessary.

That actually would have made it much better. It would allow the audience to see that Quark does indeed have lines he won't cross and that he values his friendships more than profit while getting rid of the sanctimonious Starfleet vs. Quark angle.

 

[Shatnertage]

I got untied up enough last night to watch...

"Ties of Blood and Water"


This is one of the best episodes I've seen in a while. it works so well because not only force Kira to made a philosophical/political decision, it has her make a persona/psychological one as well. That's the kind of insight into characters we don't get too often on Trek.

I knew as soon as Tekeny Ghemor started talking and it was clear that he wasn't going to betray Kira or turn out to be a Changeling that he was a dead man. And, sure enough, he's suffering from a Trek disease that doesn't have too many symptoms outside of slowly weakening and dying on a very precise timeline.

While the ailment was a little contrived, both actors brought a ton of real emotion to their parts and absolutely sold me on both the relationship and the plot.

Duakt shows up with Weyoun (yay!) but then doesn't have a scene with his daughter, for whom he sacrificed his family and career. I guess we can say that they had a big confrontation off-screen, but it really hurts the drama of the story, which is all about a father and his "daughter." They could have drawn some neat parallels between Dukat and Ghemor as fathers, but they didn't. Missed opportunity.

I'd also question having the head of the Cardassian government hanging out indefintiely on DS9 waiting for a former dissident to die. Dukat isn't that important to the story (except for the scene in Quark's), and I'd argue that you could have had a little bit of him on the viewscreen followed by Damar and Weyoun on the station. It's implausible that he'd leave his not-totally-stable government that long, and if he's not going to confront his own daughter, why bother bringing him to the station. You'd be better off leaving him on Cardassia and building him up as a powerful, dangerous man.

Otherwise, this was an absolutely beautiful and brilliant episode. The flashbacks worked so incredibly well that I can't believe they didn't do more of them. It's amazing that in seven seasons of Voyager they never told a really solid story with "real" (i.e., not technobabble) flashbacks. The technobabble rider knocks out "Flashback," and I don't think much of "Tattoo." Meanwhile, Lost made them a regular part of the show and demonstrated how a bunch of people stuck on an island could have great backstories revealed without painful exposition info dumps. That would have made Voyager a thousand times better.

Sorry, but I tend to go off on that tangent whenever I think about it.

We also learn about another delightful nugget of Cardassian culture, the Shri'Tal, where you give your kids the goods on all of your enemies. It fits in perfectly with what we already know about Cardassia.

I didn't know who the authors or director of this episode were, and I thought, "Avery Brooks is really dialed in on this one--the director's getting a great performance out of him." Then I check out MA and find out that he directed it. I loved him in the scene with Dukat and Weyoun in Quark's. That's a brilliant trio right there--Dukat hates Sisko, Sisko hates Duakat and Weyoun, and Weyoun's just taking the piss out of both of them. I loved Dukat's "Are you fucking nuts?" when Weyoun drank the poison. Of course, that's not what he said, but that was the look on his face. I imagine him tweeting: "@Weyoun5 just drank a cup full of poison #wtf #vortaareweird #dominionftw"

Well that gives me an idea. Instead of doing those "line by line" threads, we should get fake accounts and tell the story of an entire episode on Twitter. That could be really funny.

Well, back to serious stuff. Kira gets to confront a real demon here--her abandonment of her father on her deathbed--in a way that makes her more human (yeah, I know she's Bajoran). That's the real point of the story, and it works beautifully.

This is a great one. Easily goes into my top ten (which will probably have 30 episodes in it by the time I'm done). I hope there's more like it up ahead.

Though reading the blurb for "Ferengi Love Songs," I'm very tempted to skip it. Are we talking "Let He Who Is Without Sin" bad here or fun "Sub Rosa" bad?