Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

[Quinton O'Connor]

Like Babylon 5 to a greater extent, some of DS9 does indeed lay a foundation and is perhaps best appreciated upon subsequent rewatches of the series. Shatnertage sounds like one busy forumite though so hopefully he's able to get the most out of these groundwork hours!

 

[Admiral Shran]

Maybe I ought to give B5 another watch then, cause it really didn't grab me all that much on my first viewing.

 

[Shatnertage]

Well I'm back into the thick of it with...

"The Search, Part I"

So Sisko went...somewhere and brought a ship home with him. And it's full of flaws, but it's got teeth. What could possibly go wrong?

It's kind of funny watching the Season 2 extras where everyone is talking about how totally different DS9 is because they're on the station, blah blah blah, then the first episode back, they give them a ship.

To go into quibbly-nerd mode, I'm also surprised that everyone's specific skills could pivot so easily from station to starship duties. But this is of a piece with Trek, where everyone is a generalist and pretty much everything is plug and play.

It ends up that everyone is going into the Gamma Quadrant except for Jake. And I guess Nog, Rom, Morn, Garak, and lots of other station folk, too. It would have been funny if they gave all of the main cast a short vacation and had all the recurring characters carry an episode back on the station between parts I and II of "The Search." Think it can't be done? Try watching The Keys of Marinus, where the Doctor disappears for two episodes despite being the title character because William Hartnell needed a break.

We finally meet the Karemma, and they're real dickheads. Quite literally--the one that Quark negotiates with has an erect penis, even with what looks like a protruding vein running down its middle, growing out of his forehead. Here's a pic. I don't believe that no one saw that. that shot doesn't really do it justice, either.

And this one is kind of like an old Doctor Who episode--they do a good job of splitting everyone up in part I, so presumably we'll have 3 storylines in part II. I hope everyone gets back to the TARDIS safely.

Didn't they already do the "bringing in a Starfleeter to work with Odo" bit before? I got a real sense of deja vu from it.

The episode was a good set-up for whatever's coming. I can't wait to see how they get Sisko away from the Jem'Hadar. Odo's people's true identity is kind of spoiled for me since I already know the general story of the Founders, but I'm looking forward to seeing just how it goes down.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Well, some of the characters are indeed trained for starship duty, namely Sisko and O'Brien, given their past service records. But you're right--not all of them.

I can't see what you see in the Karemma makeup, though. Sorry.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Ah, "The Search, Part I" -- cool episode. Too bad you already knew the Founders gig but there's always joy in watching it actually unfold, as with all things fiction.

 

[MacLeod]

Well, some of the characters are indeed trained for starship duty, namely Sisko and O'Brien, given their past service records. But you're right--not all of them.

I can't see what you see in the Karemma makeup, though. Sorry.

And of course Bashir is CMO of Deep Space Nine so no new skills needed to be CMO on a starship.

Perhaps the first year or two at the academy is more general, whilst the later years are more specailist once you've decided what path you want to go down.

 

[Shatnertage]

^ It's just funny how in Trek no only do components designed by completely different species for completely different technologies usually work together (VOY did a lot of this) but the user interfaces are so remarkably intuitive that you don't need any special training to work on a warp-capable vessel. It's a funny contrast to looking inside the space shuttle, which seemed to have hundreds of different lights and switches, all of which probably did really important stuff.

And now I catch up with...

"The Chase, Part II"

Well, I just can't believe how the writers got themselves out of that hole. Sisko fighting off those Jem'Hadar, retaking the Defiant, then rescuing Dax and O'Brien. Brilliant stuff.

Oh yeah. They didn't do any of that. And in the end, a big part of the episode was just a dream...er, psychological projection.

I liked how the Founders' arboretum looked liked a luau. Nice stuff there. And we got to see a lot of Kira/Odo stuff.

The one thing I don't understand is that if the Founders are so worried about the Alpha Quadrant, why don't they just close the wormhole on their end? Or surround it by a cordon of Jem'Hadar ships? Either would seem to be an effective, resource-efficient way of solving the Alpha Quadrant problem. I could understand them wanting to subjugate the Alpha Quadrant if they believed they had a manifest destiny to rule all solids, but if we take them at their word that they're really just fighting defensively, it seems there are much easier ways to go about it.

On the other hand, if I invited two guests into my house and one of them broke into a room that I had locked, I'd be a little miffed. I didn't get how Kira (and Odo) felt justified, first in breaking the Founders' rule about not trying to communicate from their planet, then in breaking and entering into a room that was clearly off-limits. They aren't very good guests, are they? Seems like Odo mistrusts his people right off the bat.

Oh, and a continuity quibble. Odo and Kira took a shuttle down to the surface, then just beam back up to the Defiant. Were they leaving shuttles behind in case Voyager ended up in the Gamma Quadrant?

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

It seems you disliked the episode a lot less than many. "The Search, Part II" gets a lot of flak for that stunt it pulls... especially so because, as you'll find going forward, DS9 doesn't usually resort to such tactics in its writing. Some big things change for good as the show goes on.

For my money it's a perfectly OK episode but the drama really does get swept under the rug to an extent when it's revealed that Sisko and the others are just in a simulation. Of course, it grows sort of apparent over time during its events but still.

The Founders' motivations become clearer as the show continues, I'd say. You raise a valid point about just closing it down but... well, you'll see. Suffice it to say they do have something of a plan.

On another note, I am totally experiencing deja vu right now. I could swear I dreamt this entire portion of the thread up a few weeks ago. Like... down to your signature being as it is. Crazy.

 

[Shatnertage]

That's a pretty cool dream.

I can't really dislike any episode with a nice Garak speech in it. How did I forget to mention that?

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

And how did I forget to mention it for you? I'd say we're both guilty!

 

[Thestral]

That's a pretty cool dream.

I can't really dislike any episode with a nice Garak speech in it. How did I forget to mention that?

Part of what irks me about The Search Part II is it has some really cool moments that just didn't happen ultimately.

But otherwise, I've always thought it was a solid enough two-parter. Except for Jadzia's hair. I don't normally notice those things but Holy Shit.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

...Jadzia's hair was a travesty.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Part of what irks me about The Search Part II is it has some really cool moments that just didn't happen ultimately.

Yes! Garak's little stunt with "the plan" is probably my favourite Garak moment in the series (and competition is of course intense). But it has to be disqualified because it didn't actually happen. Garak wasn't "actually" in this one...

 

[TheGodBen]

...Jadzia's hair was a travesty.

I don't know what was worse, that hair or human slavery. Probably slavery, but the hair comes close.

What I like about The Search is that it ties in really nicely with the rumours about the Changelings from Vortex. The truth is that when Vortex was written they had no intention of ever showing Odo's people and the concept of the Dominion hadn't come about, but the way it's done you'd almost think that Vortex was intentionally foreshadowing future seasons.

 

[Ziriath]

The evening gown was nice costuming, but this one just didn't do it for me. I didn't hate it, but it's not one of my favorites.

Heh, if you didn't like Crossover, then you're probably not going to like any of the Mirror Universe episodes.

For my money, the way it undoes Mirror, Mirror is it's greatest strength. It shows that it takes more than a pretty speech from Kirk to change an entire civilization.

I dunno, I don't think it so much undoes Mirror, Mirror as suggest that yes, in fact, the reforms Spock implemented did take effect - and because of that, the Terran Empire was conquered and subjugated by the Klingons and Cardassians. Almost a "nice job breaking it, hero" result.

I hate the idea of Spock having lost all the empire. It's SPOCK who we are talking about! He would not simply disarm his empire- who is he, a mindless hippie? Definitely not. When he has a goatee, he MUST be evil! And rule the empire until his death.

 

[Admiral Shran]

What I like about The Search is that it introduces us properly to the Dominion, but doesn't tell us everything about them. The reveal of that is spread out throughout the series.

It's something similar to how the Borg were introduced in Q Who; though, in this case it wasn't done intentionally. We meet the Borg in that episode but then learn different things about them as the franchise continues to use them. For instance, we learn the basic gist of what they are, but we don't learn about assimilation, maturation chambers or their quest for perfection until later.

The same is true of the Dominion. We get the basic idea of how they operate and who they are. But we don't learn about....

Spoiler: Dominion facts

The Vorta's relationship with the Jem'Hadar, the fact that the Founders are considered gods, etc. until later.

 

[Shatnertage]

I was so over-awed by the penis-head of the Karemma that I forgot all about Jadzia's hair. As I think I've said here before (I know I said it in my VOY thread), bad hairstyling is one of the things I've seen a lot of in Trek.

Admiral Nechayev's hair wasn't so great either--the way it was all piled up on her forehead made it look like she had a really small face. But they really did a number on Jadzia.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Everyone in the 24th century loves their space buns.

 

[Shatnertage]

I was very lucky last night to pay a visit to...

"The House of Quark"

This was an absolutely brilliant episode. Good, clever comedy, good acting, and a few plot twists. It's about everything I want in Star Trek.

From the moment Kozak fell on the knife, I knew that this was going to be The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance redux. Considering they already did this with Li Nalas back in "The Homecoming," at first I thought it just meant they were out of ideas. But once the plot started unfolding, I didn't care.

I love how it showed some Klingons being just as scheming as the Ferengi, and it let Quark play the hero for a little while at least. It showed him as a smart and even compassionate character, which is great.

He had great interplay with Grilka, too, and it was awesome to see Gowron presiding over the High Council.

We also got Morn apparently leave the bar with a woman in the tease, so what else can you ask for?

Awesome episode. I really can't say enough about how much I liked it.

 

[Athena28]

..."The Search, Part II"

Well, I just can't believe how the writers got themselves out of that hole. Sisko fighting off those Jem'Hadar, retaking the Defiant, then rescuing Dax and O'Brien. Brilliant stuff...

Always good to have Admiral Nechayev in a ep. She always brings the military point of view w/her and is a good foil.

I don't love the 'dream' like part of the story -- but it was worth it to meet Odo's people, their/his story & the Great Link.