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Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

Equilibrium isn't that bad. It's not that good either, but there have been worse episodes before now.

I still don't like how the Defiant was used in the episode. It was introduced as an advanced warship unlike anything Starfleet has built before, but its first outing after The Search is a standard Enterprise-like ferrying mission.
 
I would mention one thing about the Defiant: wasn't it supposed to have some significant issues from an engineering standpoint?

Better to find out about that--and additionally get used to the ship and its unusual requirements--on a milk run than in battle...
 
In-universe you can explain most things away, but I'm talking about the narrative use of the ship. It feels wrong to introduce a ship as something new and unlike what came before only to use it in the same way. It's like how Voyager was supposed to be different from the Enterprise-D, it was supposed to be a small, short-range science vessel that was ill-equipped for the journey home from the Delta Quadrant, but it ended up being used almost exactly the same way as the Enterprise from a narrative sense. Sure, from an in-universe perspective it's easy to explain that energy is in great abundance in the ST universe and how they adapted the ship off-screen to manufacture new shuttles, or whatever, but narratively it felt weak.
 
^ Yeah, I like "Equilibrium" as well. It's slow in contrast to the first three episodes of the season, but it's a great character piece, IMO.

Agreed. Plus, maybe it was because of my age when I first saw it, but it's to me one of the more chilling episodes, particularly the music.
 
I thought Equilibrium was a wonderful character piece, but only on my second viewing. It was a bit nothingy the first time round.

But as far as a quiet episode goes, I love it. I hope you can watch it all the way through.
 
In-universe you can explain most things away, but I'm talking about the narrative use of the ship. It feels wrong to introduce a ship as something new and unlike what came before only to use it in the same way. It's like how Voyager was supposed to be different from the Enterprise-D, it was supposed to be a small, short-range science vessel that was ill-equipped for the journey home from the Delta Quadrant, but it ended up being used almost exactly the same way as the Enterprise from a narrative sense. Sure, from an in-universe perspective it's easy to explain that energy is in great abundance in the ST universe and how they adapted the ship off-screen to manufacture new shuttles, or whatever, but narratively it felt weak.

What happened to VOY was just flat-out crap writing and lack of consistency.

What happened with the Defiant fits in the story--it had to be tested, and then after it proved itself it started kicking ass and taking names as it ought to.
 
What happened to VOY was just flat-out crap writing and lack of consistency.

What happened with the Defiant fits in the story--it had to be tested, and then after it proved itself it started kicking ass and taking names as it ought to.
When it's not ferrying Sisko back to Earth for meetings with Starfleet Command, or being used for an experimental science project about artificial wormholes (even though Sisko says the ship doesn't have any science labs) or when they use it as a viewing platform to watch the wormhole do its thing.

The Defiant is a great ship, but introducing it as something new and exciting and having its second outing being something rather mundane was a mistake. And, frankly, the idea that this was used as some sort of shakedown cruise isn't put out there by the episode, it is something that you have invented, which is exactly what Voyager fans do to explain away the inadequacies on their show. In the interest of fairness, if I'm going to be that critical of Voyager then I'm going to exact the same level of criticism against DS9 when I feel it dropped the ball.
 
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I prefer to think Ben just felt like taking his sweet new ride for a spin. I mean what's the worst that could happen, those nice Jem'Hadar seem like reasonable enough chaps. :confused:
 
You're right, everything will probably be fine. :)

ds9crap.png
 
the idea that this was used as some sort of shakedown cruise isn't put out there by the episode, it is something that you have invented, which is exactly what Voyager fans do to explain away the inadequacies on their show. In the interest of fairness, if I'm going to be that critical of Voyager then I'm going to exact the same level of criticism against DS9 when I feel it dropped the ball.

Nerys, that's a good explanation, but I agree with TheGodBen that it isn't presented by the episode itself. It would have been better, and solved this little narrative mistake, if they had one line of dialogue from Sisko saying that he'll use the Defiant to ferry Dax in order to work out some of it's engineering problems before battle testing it.
 
So I have finally recovered my...

"Equilibrium"

To me this was the worst kind of episode. It was just boring. The high point was joking about Bashir popping a boner when Dax visited him in his quarters.

The whole plot just didn't make much sense to me. Even if they'd have let Jadzia die and re-hosted Dax, they would have run into the same problem the next time someone wandered into a bar with dueling pianos.

Nice tease of having Jadzia go to take off her flowing white robe at the end, only to reveal a less-flowing white garment covering her up. I called that pond the milky mikvah.

When I say that "Equilibrium" was boring, it's not because there weren't space battles or explosions. That stuff works for me only once in a blue moon ("Year of Hell" is the best example I can think of). It was just a contrived medical emergency episode that didn't really click for me. The acting just wasn't really there, either.

As a bonus for sitting through this, I let myself watch the tease for "The House of Quark" once more. I loved that episode.
 
Might be the most negative review of "Equilibrium" I've ever seen! Sorry you didn't enjoy it. At least you loved the preceding hour.
 
Amazing how subjective everything is, isn't it?

One thing I noticed that I'd like people's opinions on: it looked like all the Starfleeter's undershirts were purple, not gray, in this episode. It's very apparent in some shots. I know that Jonathan West took over as DP this season, so I'm thinking that maybe they changed the way the set was lit. Anyone else notice this?
 
bugger, i've just realised that my hatred for this episode is misplaced and i was actually thinking about "Meridian"!!

i retract my previous comments and say of this episode "meh" :sigh:
 
"Meridian"... now there's a truly terrible episode.

Shatnertage, I recall reading up on when West took over when I was doing my watch thread. Unfortunately I have terrible memory sometimes and don't remember exactly when I began noticing the alterations!
 
Amazing how subjective everything is, isn't it?

One thing I noticed that I'd like people's opinions on: it looked like all the Starfleeter's undershirts were purple, not gray, in this episode. It's very apparent in some shots. I know that Jonathan West took over as DP this season, so I'm thinking that maybe they changed the way the set was lit. Anyone else notice this?

i noticed a general overall improvement in image quality from the start of series 3 actually. brighter colours, everything looked sharper... thought it was just me :)
 
Amazing how subjective everything is, isn't it?

One thing I noticed that I'd like people's opinions on: it looked like all the Starfleeter's undershirts were purple, not gray, in this episode. It's very apparent in some shots. I know that Jonathan West took over as DP this season, so I'm thinking that maybe they changed the way the set was lit. Anyone else notice this?

I find the lighting definitely gets more dramatic\interesting as the show goes on. It's very bright and TNG-esque in the first couple seasons, but they started to play with shadows and contrasts more as the show entered season 3.
 
This new DVD is so comfortable, it feels like a....

"Second Skin"

This was a well-acted episode and therefore a good one, but on the whole it recycled quite a bit and some parts didn't make any sense. I liked it, though.

First, the whole thing about Kira being in Elemspur prison ended up not really mattering...did it? Was planting the evidence that she'd been there just a pretext to get her off the station? I guess so, but couldn't they have done that a lot more easily? Like, "There's a Bajoran extremist holding a ship of Cardassians hostage, and he'll only negotiate with Major Kira."

The biggest borrowing for this episode came from "Face of the Enemy," with Kira subbing for Troi. But "Second Skin" took the same basic premise--series regular wakes up as an ostensible enemy--in a different direction. Instead of going for SpyTrek, this was more of a psychological/personal spin on the same situation. And Nana Visitor made it believable. It was interesting to read that she hated the Cardassian makeup (on MA).

Lawrence Pressman as Legate Ghemor also delivers, with Entek becoming slowly more antagonistic as the episode goes on. At first I thought it was just an elaborate good cop/bad cop interrogation (and Kira seems to have thought so, too), but the plot twist--Ghemor is the real target--was a good one.

But this is the second big "I think I've seen this before" moment, this time from "The Defector." But there's a difference. Instead of the secret dissident giving his life to create a better Romulus (or, in this case, Cardassia) for his daughter to grow up in, this one comes to realize that his real daughter actually wouldn't want to help bring down the Obsidian Order. Interesting.

It's great to see Garak, but I'm starting to think that it's more interesting to listen to Garak make allusions about Cardassian politics than actually have him get out of his tailor's shop and do commando stuff.

Which leads me to something else that feels recycled, Garak's talking down the Cardassian patrol ship, which seems totally lifted from "The Maquis," where Dukat did the fast-talking.

And the idea that the Defiant could motor right up to the Cardassian homeworld and send a commando crew into the home of a member of the Central Command, undetected, seems implausible, to say the least. But if I was going to start letting plausibility get in the way of enjoying Trek, I wouldn't like the show very much.

I liked that they let Ghemor live--he's a great and interesting character.

Even though I've pointed out some of my quibbles here, I've got to repeat that I liked this episode--the strong acting and character stuff is enough for me.
 
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