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Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

BTW, I've been trying to figure out your avatar.
I'm afraid he just blue himself. (And I just spent the last 20 minutes watching clips of Tobias. :lol:)

Anyway, I agree with Shran on this episode. Sisko hasn't had an episode really focus on him since Emissary, he really didn't need a romance of the week episode right now. It's probably my least favourite episode of the season for that reason.
 
I was thinking that Sisko was the least defined out of all of the characters. From what the writers/producers said, I know they wanted to paint him as a builder, not an explorer but it just seems like he's sitting on the bench a lot (had to work in a baseball reference).

I only wish this was half as cool as "Sub Rosa." That was one of the funniest episodes of TNG.

If they wanted a good Sisko ep here, they should have had someone show up and try to convince him to quit Starfleet, kind of like they did with Picard in "Home." Then he could explain to all the viewers just what it is he's building.

If the kids cooperate, I might get to watch another episode tonight.
 
^ Funnily enough, he does improve as a character quite a bit towards the end of the season, as people try to convince him to do just that a couple of times.
 
Yeah...Second Sight is a bit of a yawn.

Not objectively BAD, really...just pretty ho-hum. And as someone else pointed out, 'ho-hum' really doesn't fit in well with the greatness that DS9 becomes.
 
I think season 3 is where Sisko really starts coming in his own, with eps like Civil Defence.
 
I think season 3 is where Sisko really starts coming in his own, with eps like Civil Defence.

i'm carrying out a similar activity to Shatnertage at the moment and have now just watched The Way Of The Warrior. i too noticed a change in The Sisko during season 3. Civil Defense was one episode that stands out, as did Past Tense actually.

as silly as it sounds but the appearance of the goatee and then subsequent shaved head look seemed to tie in with the change in Sisko's character... perhaps a sign of Avery feeling more relaxed now that he was allowed to embrace the look he preferred?
 
^ For me, the episode where the Sisko I know and love starts to appear has got to be "Paradise," which is helped by being followed fairly quickly by "The Maquis." He definitely comes into his own in season 3, though.
 
Is it true, or just a rumor, that Avery Brooks was considering leaving the show at this point?

If it is true, I can't say I blame him if this is all the powers that be were going to offer him.
 
Is it true, or just a rumor, that Avery Brooks was considering leaving the show at this point?
He's very open about the fact that he wanted to leave "early on" on the DVD extras, and season 2 seems to be as good a point as any for him to want to go. Avery comes across as a very passionate man and I can't imagine that he was happy with the material he was getting at this point in the show. I think part of the problem was that he was too similar to Picard at the start of the show in that he was hiding his emotions behind a mask of authority. The mask begins to slip over the course of season 2, but it doesn't fully come off until Past Tense, which is the first time where he truly has he weight of history on his shoulders. That's the point that I usually associate with the arrival of "The Sisko".
 
Is it true, or just a rumor, that Avery Brooks was considering leaving the show at this point?

If it is true, I can't say I blame him if this is all the powers that be were going to offer him.

I remember in early interviews, he did mention the respect he had for science fiction as a vehicle for exploring the human condition, and especially the fact the he is the very first African-American Captain to lead a Star Trek series. It was quite clear that he wanted DS9 to showcase how African-Americans had a role in the future, and he pushed hard for the producers to write about African-Americans in Star Trek.

Did he threaten them with quitting? We won't ever know for sure but he did seem to push really hard and eventually the producers did come up with episodes such as Far Beyond The Stars.
 
You know, back in the day in this forum, we used to have a guy who thought the female 'love interest' in this episode was really hot.

That's where I thought you were going...until I read "Nebula-class ship". :lol:

Well, she was rather attractive (at least as Nidell).
 
Yeah...Second Sight is a bit of a yawn.
Indeed. Though, this episode has one big plus, we see a Nebula-class ship in it:cool:

You know, back in the day in this forum, we used to have a guy who thought the female 'love interest' in this episode was really hot.

That's where I thought you were going...until I read "Nebula-class ship". :lol:

The Nebula class does have very ample nacelles.
 
Well, it took some time, but we finally got a chance to watch another episode...which we both disliked. At this point, I need some Trek...

"Sanctuary"


This was a bad, bad episode. There's the tedious padding in the beginning, where the Skreeans don't speak universal translator (what purpose did that serve except for chewing up 10 minutes?).

I did have some fun by imagining the guy who played Deputy Rawls on The Wire as some kind of visiting admiral critiquing the crew. For example, when everyone's standing around wondering how to get the Skreeans down to the infirmary, I could hear him say, "beam them directly there, you shitbirds!"

But before the Skreeans even get on board, I pause the DVD to have a talk with my wife about Sisko--very ironic, given what was said in this thread during my absence. Here's the crux of my thoughts on Sisko as of right now:

1. He's waaaaay too placid. Seriously, he seems medicated or something. This was the guy who they had punch Q to show how different he was from Picard. Yet he spends most of his day just sitting back, looking kind of smug.

2. He's just not as angsty as he should be. Starfleet, the organization he dedicated his career to, got his wife killed. Yeah, I know they didn't mean to, but I find it hard to believe he buried all of his resentment back in "The Emissary." He should be just a little bit pissed off at the world.

3. He's raising a teenage son on his own. This should make him completely flustered before he even gets into work. Hell, I've got two very young kids and someone raising them with me, and I'm frustrated before I get into work. But maybe it gives Sisko perspective. As I told my students the other day: "This morning I held down another human being and brushed her teeth against her will. Don't think there's anything you're going to throw at me in here that's going to get under my skin."

4. In general, he seems to be either A) In way over his head, with no idea of what he's doing or B) Possessed of some profound spiritual knowledge that gives him serenity. Either way, it's not where the character should be now.

Was he directed to be that way? I was looking at Kira's mannerisms, which just screamed "frustration" even when she wasn't talking, while Sisko was just standing there.

In my analysis, the only characters who shouldn't be a little pissed off most of the time are:

Dax, because she's 300 years old and has seen it all. She should be self-assured and even smug

Bashir, because he's young, talented, and hasn't, as I put it, "been punched in the face by life yet." He still thinks that his ability's going to solve all of the problems he faces.

Everyone else but Sisko actually does seem annoyed a lot.

Oh, back to "Sanctuary." The only thing I liked was the Quark/Odo stuff. At this point, I'd be game for a Quark-only spinoff. There was a scene between the two of them that made me pause the DVD again and remark that it was incredibly that the best performances were coming from two actors under alien makeup.

I thought that Haneek, to put no fine point on it, was a real asshole. Where did she get the sense of entitlement that made her think that occupation-ravaged Bajor would welcome 3 million refugees.

Particularly since Bajor had just gotten over a paroxysm of nativist sentiment. I'm sure welcoming 3 million refugees would have gone over very, very well.

The story gave us no reason to believe that Bajor really would make a good home for the Skreeans, other than Haneek's hunch. If anything, after being dominated by another species for so long, they should have jumped at the chance to have their own planet. If they wanted to help the Bajorans, they could still ship them food. Or (shudder) the Bajorans could buy it from them, benefiting both sides.

Now, if they wanted to really make it a dilemma, they could have made the Skreeans long-departed Bajorans coming home. That would have actually raised some interesting questions.

So I didn't like this one at all. It had many of the elements that I dislike most in Trek: alien of the week, problem of the week, totally illogical plotting.

But the Quark stuff was a treat.
 
Don't worry. One day, you will look back on a couple of the above 'thoughts on Sisko' and laugh. He does not remain 'placid'...and there is a bit of profound spiritual truth that he discovers in himself...but that is a ways off still.

During this period of the show, Ira Behr & Co. hadn't yet taken the near-complete control the writers ended up having in the later (and much better) seasons. We are still in the period when TPTB were holding Ira Behr; and thus Avery Brooks; back from making the character into what he wanted it to be. Avery was not particularly happy about this - thus his well-publicized thoughts about leaving early.

Once they let Avery have more control over his own character, Sisko improves greatly. Some of the changes are physical (this is when he starts shaving his head/growing the goatee - something they would not let him do earlier) and some in the way he carries himself and relates to others. All in all, the changes Avery Brook makes to the character really save the character, IMO.

Patience is the key, with DS9. From now through S6, each season gets progressively better. And the character of Sisko is one of the things that improves.
 
The pacing of Sanctuary made me feel as if it was meant to be a two-parter that was hastily squashed into a single episode. The universal translator issues would have made some sense in a two-parter, giving the episode time to establish the main players for part two. But in a single episode, I've always felt that they should have dumped the universal translator stuff and jumped into the core refugee issue by the 15 minute mark.
 
In my analysis, the only characters who shouldn't be a little pissed off most of the time are:

Dax, because she's 300 years old and has seen it all. She should be self-assured and even smug

Oh, don't worry, you'll get plenty of that as time goes along. ;)

I thought that Haneek, to put no fine point on it, was a real asshole. Where did she get the sense of entitlement that made her think that occupation-ravaged Bajor would welcome 3 million refugees.
Exactly how I always felt. They just show up, assume they're entitled to live on the planet and then treat the Bajorans (particularly Kira) like shit when they don't get their way. Kira really stepped up to the plate for them and yet Haneek treats her like crap - really annoys me.

And, like you said, how could a world that had been so recently ravaged by occupying aliens (something you would think the Skreeans would be a little sensitive about) take in these people. Haneek says that they aren't expecting the Bajorans to take care of them (which is a reasonable argument - just leave us alone, don't treat us as dependents and both of us will benefit), but then you have to deal with the fact that Bajor just recently almost had a coup over the fact that many citizens wanted "Bajor for Bajorans." Which brings me to....

I actually had to look that word up. :techman:

If they wanted to help the Bajorans, they could still ship them food. Or (shudder) the Bajorans could buy it from them, benefiting both sides.
Are you suggesting they engage in free trade? [sarcasm] But that would only harm the economically disadvantaged Skreeans! [/sarcasm]

It would also require the writers to have deeper understanding of economics than they've displayed in previous episodes.

So I didn't like this one at all.
The only thing I like about it is that it gives us our second shout-out to the Dominion. Rules of Acquisition established that they were an economic power-house. Here, they are established as a military power that you don't want to mess with. I like how the show is hinting at the upcoming Big Bad of the series with almost throw-away lines.

Patience is the key, with DS9. From now through S6, each season gets progressively better.

I'll agree that Season Seven dips slightly from Season Six, but not by much.
 
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