I think I saw that character in more political terms even though I know he was in the Resistance.
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
- Thread starter Shatnertage
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Ah, okay. That's understandable.
Well, I'm back with an episode that's not square, so it's...
"The Circle"
This was another good one--I'm really getting into the story. We start with someone tagging Sisko's door. I've got to say that security on DS9 is pretty lax. They should have surveillance coverage of all the main access corridors. There should be no way you should be able to get away with this kind of stuff. But then it would be a pretty boring show.
I loved the scene in Kira's room. I'm glad they were willing to play it for laughs (a little) and not make it entirely melodramatic. Bashir was particularly good. And when Bariel walked in, well that changed the dynamic.
Then, down on Bajor, Kira's chilling at the monastery, wearing a really nice dress-type outfit. I wish she'd wear that on the station--it looks way better than the usual jumpsuit. I just find the Starfleet and Bajoran uniforms really unflattering to just about everyone. Quark is hands-down the best-dressed regular, but Kira got to wear stuff like this more, it would be her.
And she has a pretty intense Orb experience, apparently naked and close to a naked Bariel in the assembly. Kinky.
Vedek Winn is becoming one of my favorite characters. She's so completely reprehensible, yet outwardly so sweet and accommodating. Great stuff.
And Jaro turns out to be a total jerk. Who'd a thunk it?
Funny moment for me when the Kressari captain was complaining about his valuable "herbacious" quality. Dude was a weed dealer, as far as I'm concerned.
At the end, Sisko's told to evacuate, and things on the planet are coming to a head. I can't wait to see the the conclusion.
"The Circle"
This was another good one--I'm really getting into the story. We start with someone tagging Sisko's door. I've got to say that security on DS9 is pretty lax. They should have surveillance coverage of all the main access corridors. There should be no way you should be able to get away with this kind of stuff. But then it would be a pretty boring show.
I loved the scene in Kira's room. I'm glad they were willing to play it for laughs (a little) and not make it entirely melodramatic. Bashir was particularly good. And when Bariel walked in, well that changed the dynamic.
Then, down on Bajor, Kira's chilling at the monastery, wearing a really nice dress-type outfit. I wish she'd wear that on the station--it looks way better than the usual jumpsuit. I just find the Starfleet and Bajoran uniforms really unflattering to just about everyone. Quark is hands-down the best-dressed regular, but Kira got to wear stuff like this more, it would be her.
And she has a pretty intense Orb experience, apparently naked and close to a naked Bariel in the assembly. Kinky.
Vedek Winn is becoming one of my favorite characters. She's so completely reprehensible, yet outwardly so sweet and accommodating. Great stuff.
And Jaro turns out to be a total jerk. Who'd a thunk it?
Funny moment for me when the Kressari captain was complaining about his valuable "herbacious" quality. Dude was a weed dealer, as far as I'm concerned.
At the end, Sisko's told to evacuate, and things on the planet are coming to a head. I can't wait to see the the conclusion.
A weed dealer? I totally didn't think of that, but that's funny! 
Vedek Wynn (Louise Fletcher) was one of my favorites on DS9. She was so righteously evil. I kept trying to see Ms. Fletcher at a con, but unfortunately, she wasn't feeling well the 2 times she was scheduled.
In a way, I can kind of see what they were going for here. The station is a kilometre and a half across, but only has a crew of 300 at this point in the show (with maybe another 500 or so civilians living on board, at a complete guess). So it should be mostly empty at times, and relatively easy to get away with this kind of thing. Though they should definitely at least have cameras on the main corridors, even if they are unmonitored.
Glad to see you're liking this trilogy. It tends to get some flack, but it's what hooked me on DS9. 
The best part was when Quark showed up in Kira's quarters at the beginning.... A PARTY!
Got to disagree on the uniforms, however. I've always found the Starfleet uniforms extremely flattering on the female characters. That's why I always loved it when Troi finally started wearing one on TNG. I also loved it the few times Seven and T'Pol wore them.
The best part was when Quark showed up in Kira's quarters at the beginning.... A PARTY!
Got to disagree on the uniforms, however. I've always found the Starfleet uniforms extremely flattering on the female characters. That's why I always loved it when Troi finally started wearing one on TNG. I also loved it the few times Seven and T'Pol wore them.
I just don't like the look of the TNG, DS9, and VOY uniforms. My favorites are the ENT uniforms, since they look practical and like something that would have evolved out of what people are wearing today.
The TOS uniforms are great, vintage design, too.
The TOS uniforms are great, vintage design, too.
While the other uniforms don't look bad, I agree that ENT by far has the most practical, believable uniforms.
You guys are certainly talking about T'Pol's orange jumpsuit, right? 
Agreed, ENT had the some of the best, certainly the most practical. But from a "military uniform" standpoint, I'd say the later, grey TNG/DS9 ones and the TOS movie ones were the best.
And, about T'Pol's catsuit.... GOD NO. Personally, I thought she looked her best in Twilight, one of the few times she wore a standard uniform.
And, about T'Pol's catsuit.... GOD NO. Personally, I thought she looked her best in Twilight, one of the few times she wore a standard uniform.
For some reason, I could go on about costuming for hours. In fact, one of my finest moments in my Voyager rewatch was my friendly disagreement over the ivory tux from "The Killing Game." I thought it was costumey and ill-fitting, everyone else loved it.
But now we're not talking fashion, we're talking about...
"The Siege"
This...was kind of a let-down. It was good enough ActionTrek, but ActionTrek is probably my second least-favorite flavor of Trek (CourtTrek beats it by a wide margin).
It seems like anytime any Starfleet crew has to do something dangerous, there's a "you don't have to do this, and I won't hold it against anyone who leaves" speech, followed by no one leaving.
But the two women in that scene had incredibly messed-up hairstyling. I don't have a screenshot, but it was just really bad.
On the other hand, Kira's hair looked better than I've seen it before--I like the "a little mussed-up" look for her.
So the civilians leave the station, Quark tries to profit from it, and Li Nalas gives a speech that saves the day. Although we never see all those Bajorans who stayed behind.
The other story is Kira and Dax trying to get to the Assembly with their evidence. I loved what Dax was wearing, and thought she looked even better in the Bajoran monk robes.
Back on the station, everyone's changed out of their uniforms. My wife asked me why they did, and my only answer was, "It's casual Friday."
So they are able to get the Bajoran general to hand back the station, just as Dax and Kira deliver the evidence and save the day.
I'm not totally sure about the plotting, since I thought this was a military coup and that the Provisional Government was already against the Circle. I didn't get the feeling that there were a lot of people on the fence who would be swayed by the evidence. But that might have been me missing a plot point that was drowned out by a crying baby. It happens.
I loved Vedek Winn in this. By a coincidence, I saw a little of Cruel Intentions that morning and was really excited to see Louise Fletcher in it. She's awesome. I love the way she threw Jaro under the bus at the end. She's so completely evil!
Li Nalas died, which I guess was all they could do with him. The way Sisko was talking about him reminded me of the end of Cobb. Bajor needs a hero, so Li was a hero.
Overall the ending felt a little rushed--things wrapped up in about 2 minutes. But it wasn't a bad episode at all.
But now we're not talking fashion, we're talking about...
"The Siege"
This...was kind of a let-down. It was good enough ActionTrek, but ActionTrek is probably my second least-favorite flavor of Trek (CourtTrek beats it by a wide margin).
It seems like anytime any Starfleet crew has to do something dangerous, there's a "you don't have to do this, and I won't hold it against anyone who leaves" speech, followed by no one leaving.
But the two women in that scene had incredibly messed-up hairstyling. I don't have a screenshot, but it was just really bad.
On the other hand, Kira's hair looked better than I've seen it before--I like the "a little mussed-up" look for her.
So the civilians leave the station, Quark tries to profit from it, and Li Nalas gives a speech that saves the day. Although we never see all those Bajorans who stayed behind.
The other story is Kira and Dax trying to get to the Assembly with their evidence. I loved what Dax was wearing, and thought she looked even better in the Bajoran monk robes.
Back on the station, everyone's changed out of their uniforms. My wife asked me why they did, and my only answer was, "It's casual Friday."
So they are able to get the Bajoran general to hand back the station, just as Dax and Kira deliver the evidence and save the day.
I'm not totally sure about the plotting, since I thought this was a military coup and that the Provisional Government was already against the Circle. I didn't get the feeling that there were a lot of people on the fence who would be swayed by the evidence. But that might have been me missing a plot point that was drowned out by a crying baby. It happens.
I loved Vedek Winn in this. By a coincidence, I saw a little of Cruel Intentions that morning and was really excited to see Louise Fletcher in it. She's awesome. I love the way she threw Jaro under the bus at the end. She's so completely evil!
Li Nalas died, which I guess was all they could do with him. The way Sisko was talking about him reminded me of the end of Cobb. Bajor needs a hero, so Li was a hero.
Overall the ending felt a little rushed--things wrapped up in about 2 minutes. But it wasn't a bad episode at all.
Ever watch nuBsG? They had much greater realism about such things...
What are you talking about? ActionTrek is the best.I think the plan was to present the evidence to both the Provisional Government and the Circle at the same time. Remember Jaro was a member of the Provisional Government, so presenting it to him and Winn would mean that both groups got it. It would give the Provisional Government a much needed weapon and give the Circle a chance to back down once they realized exactly what was happening.
I love the Circle Trilogy, I think it was a great way to start the second season. It has politics, conspiracies, a great guest character in Li Nalas and it continues to develop the universe. It's a bit rough around the edges, and The Siege is weaker than the first two parts, but it is an indication of the direction that DS9 will go later in its run.
Just to be clear, season 2 isn't like the final season of Enterprise, the show settles back into episodic stories after this trilogy and there's not many story arcs. But what season 2 does do, and this is the reason why myself and several others consider it a major step-up on season 1, is lay the foundation that the rest of the show is built on. That's what season 1 should have done, but it didn't.
Just to be clear, season 2 isn't like the final season of Enterprise, the show settles back into episodic stories after this trilogy and there's not many story arcs. But what season 2 does do, and this is the reason why myself and several others consider it a major step-up on season 1, is lay the foundation that the rest of the show is built on. That's what season 1 should have done, but it didn't.
Well, they were breaking the law by remaining on the station, and the sight of Starfleet officers attacking members of the Bajoran Militia could have led to open hostilities between them, so they took off their uniforms to make it clear that their actions weren't sanctioned by Starfleet. Or something like that.
I don't know, I see this as one of the failings of the Trilogy in that they killed off a character that could have been interesting for the future. Li could have been very important as a political figure, and later in the series they introduce a new character that's rather similar to Li to play an important political role. I feel that if they had kept Li alive, he could have taken that role and the whole thing would have held together much better.
ActionTrek can be awesome, and DS9 has what I think are some of the best examples of ActionTrek, but ActionTrek can also be annoying, particularly in late-Voyager/early-Enterprise. What makes DS9's action more engaging is that it tends to mean something important and it usually grows organically from the plot, whereas Voyager and Enterprise tended to have action for the sake of action and often bended the plot just to have an action scene, which got really tiresome.
I forgot two of my favorite scenes, both involving Ferengis: Nog's goodbye to Jake, and Quark's to Odo. Although Quark's wasn't really goodbye, of course.
I just like that split second before the turbolift goes down, where you can see that Quark really is worried about Odo.
Speaking of turbolifts, I MSTed this line in the opening "You don't have to stay" speech.
"Ensign X, you're engaged to a Bajoran guy. Lt. Y, your daughter worked on a science fair project with a Bajoran girl. Doctor Bashir, I walked in on you banging a Bajoran woman in one of the turbolifts."
For some reason that struck me as funny.
And I don't hate ActionTrek--I just prefer the talkier stuff, like "Duet" or "Tapestry." Probably my least favorite Trek episode, in theory, would be a court proceeding with a flashback to an action/battle thing that took place on a holodeck.
Yet the only example that I can think of that even comes close to that--the fencing scene from "Hollow Pursuits"--is in one of my favorite episodes, and is a great scene. So go figure.
I just like that split second before the turbolift goes down, where you can see that Quark really is worried about Odo.
Speaking of turbolifts, I MSTed this line in the opening "You don't have to stay" speech.
"Ensign X, you're engaged to a Bajoran guy. Lt. Y, your daughter worked on a science fair project with a Bajoran girl. Doctor Bashir, I walked in on you banging a Bajoran woman in one of the turbolifts."
For some reason that struck me as funny.
And I don't hate ActionTrek--I just prefer the talkier stuff, like "Duet" or "Tapestry." Probably my least favorite Trek episode, in theory, would be a court proceeding with a flashback to an action/battle thing that took place on a holodeck.
Yet the only example that I can think of that even comes close to that--the fencing scene from "Hollow Pursuits"--is in one of my favorite episodes, and is a great scene. So go figure.
Oh... Ooooh.
Oh... Ooooh.
Oh yeah. That one will be fun. Though I kind of like it.
Oh... Ooooh.
We're all thinking this at present.
It's just one episode, Shatnertage, don't despair!
Agreed.
One day the people working on Trek will realize that attractive women look far more appealing in professional clothes than they do in silly catsuits. Until this day arrives, folks like you and I must take what we can get.
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