Shatner's own words about Kirk's death in Generations

[Lance]

The other observation Shatner made at the time was that "Kirk is not integral to the script" -- which on the surface looks like the shat doing his usual chest beating, trying to weasel himself a more prominent part over other actors, but a more open mind rightly confirms that he's right. Even in the finished movie, James T. Kirk's presense in the story, even his death, feels like an afterthought of the writers. He isn't integral to the story at all.

I'd say his 'first' death on the Enterprise B feels more fitting than the second death on Veridian III.

 

[Galileo7]

....
I'd say his 'first' death on the Enterprise B feels more fitting than the second death on Veridian III.

Seriously, I do think this was a better, if it had been a final death without the Nexus, for Kirk.

 

[Mytran]

Even in the finished movie, James T. Kirk's presense in the story, even his death, feels like an afterthought of the writers. He isn't integral to the story at all

I'm paraphrasing RedLetterMedia a little here, but all Kirk had to do in the final act was help Picard to punch Soran; hardly putting his unique experience from decades in Starfleet to good use

 

[suarezguy]

The other observation Shatner made at the time was that "Kirk is not integral to the script" -- which on the surface looks like the shat doing his usual chest beating, trying to weasel himself a more prominent part over other actors, but a more open mind rightly confirms that he's right. Even in the finished movie, James T. Kirk's presense in the story, even his death, feels like an afterthought of the writers. He isn't integral to the story at all.

Well it is difficult to have (in some sense introduce) a cast of 7 characters plus three antagonists plus Kirk and also supporting role Guinan. With that (especially trying, although not fully successfully, to preserve the ensemble feel/feels-bigger cast of TNG) it would be hard not to have Kirk just a special guest star.

I think his role was pretty significant, especially considering all the other characters, without being or becoming dominant.

 

[DonIago]

I had no problem with Kirk dying, but a battle with those Klingon sisters might have been more fitting. He always expected to die alone, dying in the arms of those buxom ladies would have been hilarious!

Death! By snu-snu! #Futurama

 

[2takesfrakes]

"Did we ... make a difference?"

Everything about Kirk's death scene was so self-serving. Honestly ...

 

[Lance]

Well it is difficult to have (in some sense introduce) a cast of 7 characters plus three antagonists plus Kirk and also supporting role Guinan. With that (especially trying, although not fully successfully, to preserve the ensemble feel/feels-bigger cast of TNG) it would be hard not to have Kirk just a special guest star.

I think his role was pretty significant, especially considering all the other characters, without being or becoming dominant.

I do take the point. I guess the only comparison I've got is with the 2009 movie, which also managed to include a TOS cast member in what was essentially a glorified cameo, but did so in a way that didn't overwhelm the main ensemble cast or unbalance the movie unduly, while still making Leonard Nimoy's Spock integral to the story. One feels at times like incorporating Kirk into Generations somehow takes away from the TNG-ish-ness of the movie while still leaving Kirk not being a particularly strong contributor to the story. It's a no-win scenario on all counts.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

"Did we ... make a difference?"

Everything about Kirk's death scene was so self-serving. Honestly ...

He and Picard saved I forget how many million people on that planet near the Nexus ribbon. How is that self-serving?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Self-serving to Shatner himself ... to his ego.

 

[BigDaveX]

Self-serving to Shatner himself ... to his ego.

Bear in mind that when Shatner signed onto the film, it ended with Kirk getting shot in the back and his last line being a pretty lame one-liner. It was Paramount who ordered the film to be reshot with the ending we got, after the original ending got abysmal scores from test audiences.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Yes, that's got to be considered, but it still comes off that way, though ... doesn't it? Like a star's ego stroking ...?

 

[DonIago]

How so? It wasn't Shatner ordering the film reshot.

 

[2takesfrakes]

It doesn't matter who wrote or ordered it, the intent certainly seems to placate Shatner's need to be all important. it's all right here. Every last bit of it ...

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[XCV330]

I've never heard this before but sounds a fascinating concept - do you happen to know the source?

I read the opposite once, that GR even considered not having a ship at all and just having crews beam to new worlds from some central location, the idea being that the federation was no so advanced it did not need ships.

I really wish they'd left well-enough alone for both series. The world wouldn't be a substantially different place without four failed TNG movies.

Opinions differ but I think First Contact is one of the best Trek films. It certainly set the table for a lot to follow in terms of design, uniforms, Enterprise, Borg hierarchy, etc, like it or not.

I had no problem with Kirk dying, but a battle with those Klingon sisters might have been more fitting. He always expected to die alone, dying in the arms of those buxom ladies would have been hilarious!

Kelvinverse Prime must meet his own end one day. Maybe you'll get your wish.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It doesn't matter who wrote or ordered it, the intent certainly seems to placate Shatner's need to be all important. it's all right here. Every last bit of it ...

You're seeing what you want to see. You're looking at it through the prism of "Shatner's huge ego," so of course that's what you're seeing.

Besides, Kirk was pretty damned important. Certainly more so than Data's cat.

 

[2takesfrakes]

 

[Roundabout]

GEN was kind of disjointed. There were the TNG cast scenes and then there were the Kirk scenes. IIRC Kirk interacted with only one TNG character, Picard. The Kirk/Picard scenes were the only time TOS and TNG intersected in the movie. In a way, the movie had an odd flow to it.

One feels at times like incorporating Kirk into Generations somehow takes away from the TNG-ish-ness of the movie while still leaving Kirk not being a particularly strong contributor to the story. It's a no-win scenario on all counts.

You may be right about that. The TNG cast is rather bland to begin with. You add Shatner/Kirk, who has a flair for the dramatic, to the movie; and the result that you got was GEN.

Oddly enough, Shatner's/Kirk's presence in GEN was the best thing about that movie, at least for me.

And we finally got to see a face off between the two captains of the Enterprise, another good thing about GEN. Imho, Shatner outshined Stewart in their scenes together. Shatner's Kirk came across as charismatic and youthful. Picard looked old and dour in comparison. Even in the fight scenes against Soren, Kirk looked more like the action hero than Picard did.

Kirk did make a difference, but it seemed so underwhelming. It was a barren landscape, no one was around to witness it except Picard. What Kirk did, essentially, went unnoticed and unappreciated. It was as though Kirk's presence was suppose to matter, but it didn't really matter. Then it was back to what really mattered to the writers, Data's cat. The writers didn't do Kirk justice by the ending that they gave him.

 

[urbandefault]

As has been pointed out many times, the writers write the story. The director decides whether it fits his vision, and changes are made from there. The actors interpret what is on the page.

"Shatner's Ego" did not write the script, nor did it direct the film. Shatner played what was given to him, and what made the final cut was what the director ok'd.

Like him or don't, Shatner is not responsible for how anyone feels about his part in Generations.

Shatner haters really piss me off, Jim.

 

[Lance]

One part of Kirk's death that I think has got poetic resonance is that he's laid to rest beside the destroyed remains of the Enterprise. Not *his* Enterprise, admittedly, but still it's a cute touch.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Soren actually did kill Kirk, via very poor construction practices when he build that metal walkway, and i even doubt Picard actually managed to sabotage the missle, i bet Soren killed himself when the missle actually blew up due to once again poor construction practices. lol

Oh, and the spot he picked was also rubbish, i can quite clearly see higher mountians in the background, guy seemed to be rubbish at everything, no wonder it took him another 70 plus years to even try to get back in. lol