Shatner: "I hope that movie bombs"

[Noname Given]

misskim86 said:
Hehe that Far side comic did make sense but c'mon trek still has to be trek, First Contact was a commercial success and it demanded some general knowledge

Actually, no, it didn't. The movie opens with Picard having a nightmare related to his Borg capture; and if you never saw Star Trek before, the rest of that particular 'backstory' is explained when Picard has the officer briefing two minutes later in the film, and we go from there.

IF you saw the TNG episode Best of Both Worlds; you catch on a bit quicker; but if you didn't, you're also brought up to speed in the next few minutes.

The rest of the film introduces wholly new elements to Star Trek as we'd never seen or heard of the 'Borg Queen' before; nor had actual, concrete specifics regarding Human/Vulcan first contact or Zefrim Cochrahne's first Warp flight ever been presented in ANY Star Trek episode of film before.

 

[misskim86]

How can't she understand what planet, scientist, captain picard, war etc means

 

[misskim86]

So have a two minute briefing about the dominion war, and what happened in Nemesis and first contact too, it wouldn't be so hard

 

[PKTrekGirl]

misskim86 said:
How can't she understand what planet, scientist, captain picard, war etc means

But you are missing the whole point - which is that the general public couldn't possibly care *less* about Trek canon. And so yes - while they CAN read and comprehend English...none of the above paragraph means anything to them. They just aren't that interested in some cases...and in others, it simply serves to overwhelm them to the point where they shut down.

In fact, I know a couple of people (the friend mentioned in the above post being one of them) who have flat out told me that the reason they don't start watching Star Trek is that is is 'too big'...and that they feel completely overwhelmed by all of this stuff that they feel like they should know before they even *start*.

And that is the way alot of people react when they are overwhelmed - they tune out. Which is pretty much what Sam was saying with the 'blah, blah, blah' bit.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

misskim86 said:
So have a two minute briefing about the dominion war, and what happened in Nemesis and first contact too, it wouldn't be so hard

NO.

No one cares except for fans who already know. No one else should have to care, EVER, and they would be right to resent any insistence that they should.

Ya got your flashy spaceships, your aliens, your adventure in deep space, hot guys like young Kirk and Spock and smart babes like Uhura. Teleporters, ray-guns and hopefully even the Wonder Of It All - if they can get that into a story that moves and entertains people, this flick's got a chance. If that's not enough - then screw "Star Trek" and hang it all up. For good.

 

[Kryton]

BTW, Gary Larson went back to the well with that cartoon. He did a nearly identical CAT version of it as well!

 

[misskim86]

What you are suggesting is a Star Trek that sucks like hell. Movie audience today know when a movie sucks.

flashy spaceships, aliens, adventure in deep space, hot guys like young Kirk and Spock and smart babes like Uhura. Teleporters, ray-guns and hopefully even the Wonder Of It All -

that stuff isn't enough for a move audience today, I doubt it was even back in the 70s. You had to know Star Trek to even watch The motion Picture and Khan, and they were successes.

to make a movie based on "hot guys and ray guns" lol..that's like asking it to flop.

There are still tons of trek fans out there, we didn't have a big genocide since the 80s, aslong as they'd make a good movie it wuold be as big as Khan or so..no need to dumb it down

 

[Flavius]

Did I mention that Ricardo Montalban is going to do a cameo?

 

[Kryton]

BTW...I saw something tonight that reminded me of this thread....

Spongebob & Patrick were DISGUSTED that they'd re-cast Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy, so they got the "real" MM & BB and filmed their own (truly horrible) movie instead!

They even had a couple of Trek-related lines in it. Mermaid Man IS Shatner, as far as I'm concerned!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

misskim86 said:
There are still tons of trek fans out there...

Nope. No, there aren't.

Ray-guns and spaceships are a good deal more interesting than some "continuity porn" drama involving reanimating Kirk and DS9.

 

[Flavius]

^There's a ton of former fans out there, looking for a reason to take another look.. There has to be a real reason, though, like a good movie. That would do it, I think.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Flavius Scrooge said:
^There's a ton of former fans out there, looking for a reason to take another look.

Nope, there's no evidence to support that at all, other than the occasional anecdotal my-friend-used-to-watch-DS9-etc-etc foolishness.

Believing in those legions of ex-fans drooling to return to the fold is like believing in the tooth fairy.

 

[Kegek]

North Pole-aris said:

Flavius Scrooge said:
^There's a ton of former fans out there, looking for a reason to take another look.

Nope, there's no evidence to support that at all, other than the occasional anecdotal my-friend-used-to-watch-DS9-etc-etc foolishness.

I have los of IRL friends who used to watch DS9. But they haven't given a damn in almost a decade - and rightly so. They're both oblivious and indifferent to the franchise at this point. And even when they liked it, they were far too much casual viewers to be considered 'Trekkis' in the devotional sense meant here.

 

[T'Bonz]

I've had to read a lot of Shatner lately (and watch videos on his site) for doing the news. Every time he was asked, and it is plenty, so I bet he's sick of it, he had something nice to say about the movie. Just the once, he made a smartassed comment and suddenly he's against the movie?

From what I've seen/experienced in person/read, Shatner IS a smartass, with a dry sense of humor. I really think that he doesn't give a shit about the movie one way or the other. Meaning he doesn't want it to tank, but doesn't care if it succeeds because it's no money in his pocket. But like many people, he's polite, wishing it well, etc.

As a Trek fan who still loves all Trek (some series more than others and some parts of some series more than others), I like the folks in it. I wish them all well (and sincerely at that.) But I truly don't give a damn if Shat wishes the movie well or hopes it bombs. Or if Picard likes or hates Trek. Or if Beltran mocks the fans or not.

It doesn't matter. I like them as the performers they were but they're not married to Trek. What they feel or think is their business and neither pleases nor offends me. I'm grateful to them for having given us plenty of good entertainment, but I feel neither the need to support their other stuff (unless I like it) or the need to be offended or pleased because they do or don't genuflect before the altar of Trek.

 

[Sharr Khan]

that stuff isn't enough for a move audience today, I doubt it was even back in the 70s. You had to know Star Trek to even watch The motion Picture and Khan, and they were successes.

to make a movie based on "hot guys and ray guns" lol..that's like asking it to flop.

It is exactly enough, if anything "TMP" completely lacks backstory - where its weighed down is its new shiny effects. And all the explanation a line of dialogue which happened to serve the plot of Trek II was all that was required for anyone to understand Khan and the rest of that movie.

Actually treating this "Star Trek Movie" just like any other movie instead of special case is the precise way to bring in outsiders and make it a success.

Sharr

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I knew lots of people who watched TNG who dropped Trek when it went off the air. Not trekkies - just folks who liked TNG. That series was the closest thing to a real popular, mainstream success that Trek has ever had.

None of those folks are "looking for a reason to take another look." They moved on to other things more than a decade ago.

But again, all of this is anecdotal at best.

 

[Noname Given]

misskim86 said:
that stuff isn't enough for a move audience today, I doubt it was even back in the 70s. You had to know Star Trek to even watch The motion Picture and Khan, and they were successes.

Really, I guess that's why the original Star Wars (released back in 1977) was SUCH a FLOP!.....Oh, wait, it WASN'T, and it's success lead to the revival of 'Star Trek' into Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

Bottom line - If a movie is ENTERTAINING to audiences; it usually hits pretty big. If Star Trek 2008 is entertaining, it will too - REGARDLESS of whether it slavishly adheres to 40+ years of previous Star Trek continuity, or not.

BUT, please realize that WE HAVE had films (and the TNG films are VERY indicative of this) that use all of Star Trek's 40 year back story; and overall (as seen by Insurrection and Nemesis) didn't do well BECAUSE of the 'Star Trek Laundry List' of what 'fans' (and John Logan was an admitted BIG fan of TNG) felt a 'Star Trek' movie must have/do.

The funniest thing I've seen (and I'm talking in general here) is the belief of a vast majority of fans that if it DOESN'T have William Shatner as 'oldKirk'; the film is 'doomed'.

If this is a Star Trek film - to be 'true' to TOS, it needs four basic things - 'Captain Kirk', 'Mr. Spock', 'Dr. McCoy', and the 'Starship Enterprise' - and the film HAS THAT (no matter WHO plays in the roles of 'The Big Three'.

All the rest is just nice window dressing (and before people start screaming what about 'Scotty', 'Uhura', 'Sulu', and 'Chelov' - please remember that for the first 10 or so episodes of the first season - 3 of the four we're no more prominent then say 'LT. Kevin O'Rielly', and nobody is really clamoring for him, are they. As for Chekov, hell, he wasn't even shown on the ship in season one).

Now, enough has leaked that we WILL see 'the fab four' in the film; but again, original 'Star Trek' at it's base is just 'Captain Kirk', 'Mr. Spock', 'Dr. McCoy', and the 'Starship Enterprise'. If the film has that at the core; AND an entertaining, adventerous story, it should do well; period.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

DarthTom said:

Babaganoosh said:
And I can only assume that if Spiner hated Trek and its fans so much, he would never have agreed to play Arik Soong on ENT.

Money. In any case, hatred was too strong a word, more as Dennis described mocking the fans and the show.

Actually it was Spiner's *idea* to appear on the show in the first place.

Manny Coto was going to do a Colonel Green arc, but when Spiner asked to be on the show, the story was rewritten and became the Augments arc.

The only remnant of the Green arc is one of his flags (using the same emblem Green wore on TOS, I think) showed up in "In a Mirror, Darkly".

 

[Flavius]

North Pole-aris said:

Flavius Scrooge said:
^There's a ton of former fans out there, looking for a reason to take another look.

Believing in those legions of ex-fans drooling to return to the fold is like believing in the tooth fairy.

She's a regular guest in our house.
No, I was thinking about the people who used to watch TNG.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, most of the folks who watched TNG are probably still alive, no doubt about it. There's no reason to think that they're champing at the bit for a good Trek movie, though - particularly because most of them were not TOS fans to begin with; they were folks who picked up on Trek because of TNG.