Shang-Chi And The Legend Of The Ten Rings Spoiler/Rating Thread!!!

[Booji]

A+

That was fucking awesome. Right up there with Endgame and Winter Soldier. The cast and characters were great. Really cool fighting scenes and super fun. Even the end credits scenes were awesome. And a dragon!!!!!!! I might have to go see it again and I seldom do that.

 

[David cgc]

I absolutely loved her in this. I found her character interesting, she has tons of charisma. Actually reminded me of my relationship with my own friends. Again, I don't think I have seen her in anything else unfortunately but she felt so natural on screen. Nothing forced or fake about her.

I thought she was really good in The Farewell, so that'd be my recommendation.

I thought this was top-tier MCU. I didn't pay too much attention to the trailers, but what promotion I did pick up didn't give a very representative feel of how the movie would go. I liked how it managed to shift setting and tone repeatedly while still maintaining a lot of coherence and consistency. Before the first fight scene (well, second fight scene), I was thinking I wouldn't mind if a movie that was just a hangout comedy about these two twenty-something kids missing around San Francisco and having relatable growing-up conflicts.

But eventually there was a Cuthulu soul-eating dragon that exploded in the shape of a logo, and that was pretty cool, too. I also wasn't spoiled on any of the crossover characters. I liked when I briefly thought Wong had hitherto unknown layers since his hobby was that he was in Superhero Fight Club, though it was more consistent with what we already knew when it was revealed it was apparently him volunteering to help with the Abomination's rehab and not just a self-destructive expression of his hidden inner darkness. Likewise, I was delighted when the weird noises in the dungeon actually were our old buddy Trevor, picking up from "All Hail the King," after I've been consistently disappointed every time I've hoped for an impending Agents of SHIELD reference in the MCU. Looks like they actually can still pick up on something I know from the secondary media, after all.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I really loved Shang-Chi, not just for its spectacular hand-to-hand combat sequences (some of the very best in the MCU, Daredevil included!), but also for its strong family dynamics and unique world building. I particularly loved how they intertwined Chinese mythology into to the realm of Ta Lo, although I admit I don't know much of that was just superficial inclusion or whether it was something deeper. I hadn't even heard (or seen a depiction) of a hundun until we met Morris.

Speaking of Morris...the great and marvelous return of Trevor Slattery! I already knew in advance that Ben Kingsley would indeed return for this film, just as I had hoped, thanks to his appearance at the world premiere and yet, he appeared a lot more than I expected. I fully anticipated his appearance would be an extended cameo, so imagine my surprise and delight when he traveled with Shang-Chi and Katy to Ta Lo and had a continuing presence all the way to the end...and lived to tell the tale! Not only that, but his appearance here "canonizes" All Hail the King, which I believe is the first Marvel One-Shot to be openly acknowledged by the films.

But coming back to the meat of the story: I really enjoyed the journey Shang-Chi went through, from self-exile in shame of himself to learning the truth about his mother, repairing his relationship with sister, and finally standing up to his father to the point that he inadvertently earned the right to inherit the Ten Rings, even if he didn't want them initially.

That said, what I appreciated the most was seeing a strong friendship between a man and a woman without even a hint of romance. I adored his relationship with Katy and how, after the moment of broken trust, grew closer together to become stronger friends. Just in time to deal with a mysterious signal...

How about that mid-credits scene?! I definitely didn't see that coming. I'm glad they immediately ruled out any connection to Vibranium, a thought that I had running in the back of my head, considering the way the power of the Ten Rings weapons operated reminded me of Wakanda's weapons (right down to the color purple...). But if not that, then what? Fin Fang Foom (although shouldn't he be sleeping inside the Earth?)? Something else I'm not familiar with?

Also...why is Bruce Banner back to normal Meek Banner? I want Scientist Hulk back!! And Carol grew her hair out awfully fast, too!

Lastly: Dragons!!!! I'm always a sucker for dragons!!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I hope Trevor returns in some future film.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I really enjoyed it. I might even love it. Awkwafina who plays Katy is excellent. I want to check out other stuff she has done because she comes across as so natural and lovelable in this movie and very funny.

I can't recommend this enough. I've been a big fan of hers since the one-two punch of Ocean's 8 and Crazy Rich Asians (the latter also featuring Michelle Yeoh and Ronny Chieng!). But the real tour de force for her is The Farewell, while strictly a drama, has plenty of humorous moments and Awkwafina shines through the whole time. I also recommend her Comedy Central series Awkwafina is Nora From Queens. And, of course, you have to check out Raya and the Last Dragon.

Does anyone know what the heck the end credit's scene was about? Banner is back to normal and Captain Marvel is there talking about the rings. Why those characters?

Banner for the science and Danvers for the alien origins of the rings (remember the prologue said they may have come from the stars like Vibranium).

I liked when I briefly thought Wong had hitherto unknown layers since his hobby was that he was in Superhero Fight Club, though it was more consistent with what we already knew when it was revealed it was apparently him volunteering to help with the Abomination's rehab and not just a self-destructive expression of his hidden inner darkness.

Yeah, that was a cool touch. I loved getting a glimpse of Wong's life outside of Dr. Strange and I'm actually glad Strange didn't show up in the mid-credits scene for the same reason.

I hope Trevor returns in some future film.

So do I! I was so surprised he survived so they have to bring him back for more! More Ben Kingsley acting like a goofball the better!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

For those who worried about Shang-Chi not performing well, you can breath easy now. The film has smashed Labor Day weekend records despite COVID, earning $71.4 million and falling just short of Black Widow's $80.3 million opening, which remains the highest-grossing weekend opener in the COVID era (it's insane that's even a term now). With no Disney+ Premier Access, hopefully the film fares better in the second week and beyond.

 

[StCoop]

With no Disney+ Premier Access, hopefully the film fares better in the second week and beyond.

It basically has the whole month of September to itself to make money, so it should do quite nicely.

And it's already having an effect on other movies with Venom moving back up two weeks to the 1st of October.

 

[Saul]

Also...why is Bruce Banner back to normal Meek Banner? I want Scientist Hulk back!!

Same. I'm guessing this is because he will be in the 'She Hulk' series and normal Bruce Banner is way cheaper than Scientist Hulk if he is in a lot of scenes.

I can't recommend this enough. I've been a big fan of hers since the one-two punch of Ocean's 8 and Crazy Rich Asians (the latter also featuring Michelle Yeoh and Ronny Chieng!). But the real tour de force for her is The Farewell, while strictly a drama, has plenty of humorous moments and Awkwafina shines through the whole time. I also recommend her Comedy Central series Awkwafina is Nora From Queens. And, of course, you have to check out Raya and the Last Dragon.

Thanks to you and @David cgc for the recommendations. I might check out Awkwafina is Nora From Queens and The Farewell first.

 

[StCoop]

Same. I'm guessing this is because he will be in the 'She Hulk' series and normal Bruce Banner is way cheaper than Scientist Hulk if he is in a lot of scenes.

Kevin Feige has said that it's a question that will be answered elsewhere.

https://screenrant.com/kevin-feige-shang-chi-interview/

The odd thing about the MCU at the moment is that the movies (and TV shows) are not getting released in chronological order.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

It basically has the whole month of September to itself to make money, so it should do quite nicely.

And it's already having an effect on other movies with Venom moving back up two weeks to the 1st of October.

Good point there. Between that and the reviews being largely positively, it should maintain momentum for awhile until James Bond comes along (unless there's something else I'm forgetting about?).

Same. I'm guessing this is because he will be in the 'She Hulk' series and normal Bruce Banner is way cheaper than Scientist Hulk if he is in a lot of scenes.

Kevin Feige has said that it's a question that will be answered elsewhere.

https://screenrant.com/kevin-feige-shang-chi-interview/

Yeah, safe bet that it'll be explained in She-Hulk.

The odd thing about the MCU at the moment is that the movies (and TV shows) are not getting released in chronological order.

It is odd, but it's not the first time a post-credits scene is out of order. Plus, it's a minor detail. It's not like if Homecoming was released before Civil War.

Thanks to you and @David cgc for the recommendations. I might check out Awkwafina is Nora From Queens and The Farewell first.

You're welcome! Enjoy.

On a different note, I noticed on the film's Wikipedia page that Jade Xu reprised her role from Black Widow as Helen, one of the liberated Black Widows. However, I don't remember her from either film, so I guess she's some kind of stealth background character (appropriate). I wonder if that's building up to something? Or just a fun casting choice since she's a competitive wushu athlete?

 

[StCoop]

On a different note, I noticed on the film's Wikipedia page that Jade Xu reprised her role from Black Widow as Helen, one of the liberated Black Widows. However, I don't remember her from either film, so I guess she's some kind of stealth background character (appropriate).

She's one of the cage fighters. Fighting against someone who's hopped up on Extremis IIRC.

Edit: Actually, here's the clip!

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[The Nth Doctor]

Ah, thank you for that! I do remember that now but I hadn't realized she was also in Black Widow (presumably only during the climax when Nat frees them all). However, that said, I completely missed the Extremis reference. Nice catch there.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I really appreciated that the restraint of the marketing campaign allowing Ta Lo(?) to be a surprise and even the misdirect suggesting the bus was a meet cute for Shang Chi and Katy. Remember all the hot takes about bad Chinese/women drivers?

That said, I was enjoying the contemporary story enough that the move to the mystic land was an unwelcome change in tone and pacing at that point. It smoothed out after a while but it was jarring initially. The timing sometimes seemed a bit compressed and abrupt between cozy loving family/cold deadly assassin training/slackin' in the USA.

The action was nicely executed and enjoyable and I liked the friend/sister relationship with "Shaun" and Katy. Maybe a hint at the end of becoming something more at the end but I liked their platonic 'ship. As a viewer of The Daily Show with Trevor Noah I really enjoyed seeing Ronny Chieng's small part (as seen in the clip above).

A little funny how "GI Joe" it got at the end with all the red and blue color coding and the bad guys using non-lethal containment on the good guys. The dragons were a cool sight and the kaiju FX nicely done. Once all hell breaks loose is quite a visual feast. I've made my complaints here and there but don't get me wrong this is solid Marvel and I was entertained. I don't think I've been back to the theater since Birds of Prey came out!

Those end credits were rather excruciating to wait for the next little bonus scene. I mean at this stage it's like the "encore" at a concert, we know it's coming at this point, don't drag it out too long.

Interesting that it's not "Shang Chi will return", its "Ten Rings will return".

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The action was nicely executed and enjoyable and I liked the friend/sister relationship with "Shaun" and Katy. Maybe a hint at the end of becoming something more at the end but I liked their platonic 'ship.

I'm really hoping they their relationship platonic. As I noted in my review, their friendship was one of my favorite things about the film and I don't want the writers to change that dynamic.

As a viewer of The Daily Show with Trevor Noah I really enjoyed seeing Ronny Chieng's small part (as seen in the clip above).

I can't remember if I knew ahead of time that he was going to appear but him popping up like that brought a smile to my face, much like his appearance in Crazy Rich Asians did. Which is funny considering I liked him the least out of the three correspondents that joined Trevor when he took over but Ronny has grown on me over time.

Considering his appearance in the post-credits scene, it seems likely we haven't seen the last of him either!

Interesting that it's not "Shang Chi will return", its "Ten Rings will return".

I think that's more of a case of indicating definitively that the Ten Rings will return as a force to be reckoned with than any slight against Shang-Chi. The mid-credits scene makes it pretty clear Shang-Chi will be playing a large part in the larger scheme of things.

Or maybe they (whoever makes the decision what's written there) just wanted to change things up?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Chewing on this a bit more and having a few more thoughts, I'm wondering if they really needed the sister plot in there. It would've changed the dynamics up some if it were just betrayal of father and son even if that's maybe a bit more of a stock plot given the Chinese characters.

The whole fantasy land thing does give them more to play with in that wuxia epic type style but it does kind of divorce it from the immediacy the MCU typically has where the MCU movies (with some exceptions no doubt) typically feel like they're happening "here and now". Having a good portion of the movie in Ta Lo and with the flashbacks maybe feels a bit more remote? Not sure that's even a bad thing, just an observation.

Could you even imagine this story with "Fu Manchu" even if Marvel had the rights to use that? Moving Shang Chi from its 70s roots into the more modern and mainstream MCU it's hard to even picture how that would've worked.

 

[valkyrie013]

Best Marvel movie in years. Up with infinity war, winter soldier.

 

[Saul]

The whole fantasy land thing does give them more to play with in that wuxia epic type style but it does kind of divorce it from the immediacy the MCU typically has where the MCU movies (with some exceptions no doubt) typically feel like they're happening "here and now". Having a good portion of the movie in Ta Lo and with the flashbacks maybe feels a bit more remote? Not sure that's even a bad thing, just an observation.

It kinda reminded me of Wakanda. It's remote and hidden away from the rest of the world also.

I'm wondering if they really needed the sister plot in there. It would've changed the dynamics up some if it were just betrayal of father and son even if that's maybe a bit more of a stock plot given the Chinese characters.

I didn't mind the inclusion of the sister. I guess if she wasn't in it then yes it's more of a father and son story and there is a lot more going on whens she is included but I like that it makes Shang-Chi a less then perfect person and more relatable to his father because they both abandoned their family.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Could you even imagine this story with "Fu Manchu" even if Marvel had the rights to use that? Moving Shang Chi from its 70s roots into the more modern and mainstream MCU it's hard to even picture how that would've worked.

I did appreciate that the dad's full name (as seen in IMDB) was 'Xu Wenwu'. You can definitely see Fu Manchu (and its accompanying legend) coming out of that name sometime in the distant past, via superstition and second-hand tales, so it works at that level.

 

[Skywalker]

I really enjoyed this. It was a fairly standard origin story, but certainly one of the better MCU origin films. Simu Liu was solid as Shang-Chi, though I think the character's arc was kind of ill defined and he didn't change all that much. Awkwafina was great as Katy. I really enjoyed the friendship between those two characters and I'm honestly super glad they didn't force any kind of romance in there. Like, when they were at the memorial scene at the end I was honestly expecting them to kiss. The real standout, for me, was Wenwu, though that's not really a surprise since Tony Leung is a damn good actor.

As for the beacon in Shang-Chi's rings, I'm fairly sure it's meant to be a signal for Galactus. Maybe they belonged to one of Galactus' heralds who came to Earth centuries ago but somehow was destroyed. I'm thinking this will get followed up on in a post-credits scene for Fantastic Four, when we'll get our first glimpse of the Silver Surfer.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I want to share some recent articles that have helped heighten my enjoyment of the film after the fact:

Shang-Chi is Apparently Even Cooler If You Speak Mandarin

When Tony Leung’s Wenwu first arrives in Ta Lo with his Ten Rings henchman, he is met by the people who guard the Dark Gate, including Michelle Yeoh’s Ying Nan and Guang Bo, played by veteran martial arts actor Yuen Wah. When Guang Bo tries to convince Wenwu that his mission is asinine and that he is the worst, Wenwu shoots back with this one-liner: “I’ve lived ten of your lifetimes, young man.” At least that’s what the English-language subtitles will tell you he said. According to Mandarin speakers, a closer translation would be: “I’ve tasted more salt than you have rice.” Which is so much cooler.

Another example of some of the cultural nuance lost in translation comes in a scene between Yeoh’s Ying Nan and Shang-Chi (Simu Liu) that takes place slightly after his arrival in Ta Lo. In it, Nan tells Shang-Chi “I’m proud of you.” (According to the English-language subtitles.) But, according to Reddit, the literal translation would be closer to “You are mom’s pride.” While this hits a bit harder emotionally even for those who don’t understand the Chinese cultural context of the phrase, Reddit user yawnandshrug elaborates: “It’s more than just saying his mum would be proud of him, there are connotations like ‘you are the pride and joy of your mum’s life’ and culturally stuff like that is just not said unless you are really close/really mean it. It’s basically short hand for saying that Shang-Chi’s aunt adores him.”

One of the most emotionally affecting scenes in the entire film is when Wenwu brings a young Shang-Chi with him to kill the men who killed Ying Li. Little Shang-Chi is left to watch as Wenwu slaughters all of them. After the bloodbath, he kneels down next to his son, mentions that there are others responsible for Ying Li’s death, and asks (via English subtitles): “Will you help me?” The translation leaves out the “baba,” an informal way of saying “father” in Mandarin, in the line that could be translated: “Will you help your dad?” As Reddit user Iris_Sun points out: “With ‘your papa’, Wenwu acknowledges his role as a father, and the position of his son. There’s a level of familiarity and kindness that you really only use with the people you love. Shang-chi is not a tool, but his child. There’s also the cultural implication of passing on one’s legacy; as in, will you help me by learning my line of work so that you might eventually take it over.”
​

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings Made Me Feel Seen Like No Other Hollywood Blockbuster Has

The film’s use of the Mandarin language, for starters, encompasses everything from slang to chengyu—idioms with roots in Chinese history that are primarily formed by four characters. In the opening scene, where Shang-Chi’s mother Jiang Li (Fala Chen) speaks of the origins of Wenwu and the ten rings, she describes him as having had the option to “cheng e yang shan” (懲惡揚善)—suppress evil and do good—but having chosen instead to use the weapon to conquer lands for his own gain. Hearing the expression brought me back to the classrooms of my Taiwanese elementary school, where memorizing pages upon pages of chengyu was part of the regular curriculum. And listening to a lengthy opening segment in Mandarin reminded me of hearing narrations of Chinese legends and tales while growing up, like when my brother and I crowded around the television to watch a cartoon adaptation of Xi You Ji, or Journey to the West, and savored every detail.

The film’s handling of Mandarin names also struck a chord, even in subtle instances, like when Shang-Chi calls his younger sister, Xialing (Meng’er Zhang), “Lingling” in a flashback scene. This small detail felt incredibly authentic, as nicknames in the Chinese community are commonly formed through doubling up on the final character. My full name is Meng Xiang Yue, and most of my extended family called me Yueyue throughout my childhood.
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One particular family interaction in Mandarin surprised me for how closely it reflected a common exchange in my life: When Jiang Li asks her children, Shang-Chi and Xialing, to go inside the house ahead of a pivotal confrontation. “I have to talk to the guests,” she tells them. In that moment, I knew the speech in this film was approached with care and intentionality. I can’t count the number of times the exact phrase in Mandarin, “wo gen ke ren you hua yao shuo” (“我跟客人有話要說”), was used by my parents when I was a kid. Especially in the presence of said guests, the line is code for: please leave the room, now.
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Surrounding Shang-Chi With Powerful Women Was Vital to the Story

[Director Destin Daniel ] Cretton told io9, “When Michelle Yeoh showed up in Sydney, she had been digesting the script and said it didn’t make any logical sense to her why she wouldn’t have a moment with Xialing, empowering her to step out of the shadows for the first time. So once she had that idea, we wrote up that scene and it became a big part of Xialing’s journey.” He added: “I mean this is the Shang-Chi movie, but if you do watch it from Xialing’s perspective I think you are also seeing these moments where she is on a similar trajectory and tapping into a power inside her that she didn’t know she had.”

Besides actor Michelle Yeoh bringing her female-empowerment scene to the table, Meng’er Zhang also transformed her character after reading a 2018 Teen Vogue article by Rae Chen on how the trope of the rebellious Asian women with colorful hair is problematic. “Originally my character had some like odd red color extensions underneath my hair,” Zhang told io9. “We have already shot the film for over a month and one day and I just read an article from Teen Vogue. It said how Asian female characters in Hollywood films always have a hint of color in their hair to show that they are rebels, they are tough, they can fight.” Zhang said she didn’t want Xialing to follow that trend because she felt she was so unique. “So I talked to our director Destin. I asked him if we could take it out, and they supported me and they agreed with me.”
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Shang-Chi's Director on Making a Marvel Movie With Asian Americans in Mind

The film also challenges the stereotype that Asians are perpetual foreigners. Wenwu calls Katy (Awkwafina) the “American girl,” meaning that Asians can—of course—be Americans too. To further dispel this negative characterization, Asian Americans are portrayed as having a varied command of Asian languages. When Katy says she cannot speak Chinese well, Jon Jon (Ronny Chieng) says, that’s okay, he speaks “ABC” (American Born Chinese). This likely means that he can codeswitch between Chinese and English—a skill of bilingual Chinese born in America. The variation in Asian language fluency among Asian Americans is further demonstrated when Shang-Chi teaches Katy how to say “Shang-Chi,” repeating the pronunciation multiple times until she says it correctly. It also serves as a meta moment, letting audiences learn how to properly pronounce the name of the film and its titular superhero.
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All of these articles are worth reading in their entirety (especially the first two), but I've tried to highlight the most important parts and why they've deepened my appreciation for this film.

Now I need to go learn Mandarin...