Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by The Overlord, Dec 25, 2018.
You forgot one: the whale probe is also Khan.
Chang was Khan (STVI: TUC)
I don't think so, mates.
The Whale Probe wanted to communicate with the whales. It's transmissions were targeted at Earth's oceans. There seemed to be no malicious intent in the atmospheric/weather disturbances caused by the Whale Probe trying to communicate with the humpbacks.
Chang wanted war. He didn't have cause for revenge. Combat for the sake of combat is enough for Klingons. Even though Chang was apart of the conspiracy and knew the projected losses the Klingons were expected to endure; he participated in assassination of Gorkon and attempted assassination of the UFP president. A true war hawk. AH! That's why they call Klingon ships "Birds of Prey". I just got that.
Rand was Khan. She engineered a transporter malfunction just as Kirk's ex was beaming up.
What do you expect from writers that have the subtley of a four-year-old?
For them to write Star Trek, which could be as subtle as a four year old bull in a china shop.
SFDebris' review pretty much mirrors my own. Kirk is just an unlikable character through and through and sacrificing himself does not equate to character growth in my book.
And I'm SO GLAD he brought up the change in Khan's character when NuSpock brought up the out of place "Kill anyone less than superior". And this isn't some 'Oh, that's this universe's version of Khan." No. NuSpock learns this information from PRIME SPOCK, who should know that Khan was not about freaking genocide! That's Archer's claim to fame.
And of course, the Vengeance crashing into Starfleet Headquarters. Not only does no one try to stop it, but no one seems to care about all the destruction it had caused. It's pitiful.
I can agree on the no one seeming to care about the destruction (though that seems true of many Star Trek stories and their unfortunate implications) I am curious as to whom would be able to stop it? Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect Marcus to have ways to counter the Earth defense grid onboard the Vengeance? And the ship was larger than the Enterprise by a considerable margin so what resources would Starfleet be able to martial for such a response?
Babylon 5 Earth had scores of orbital missile and laser satellites. A few of those on the shieldless Vengeance, and Londoners would need to use their umbrellas to keep the ashes out of their hair.
There is no evidence that Earth had such things in Star Trek, um, at all.
Although, the addition of such would be a tactical benefit.
The 2 Xindi Sphere weapons.
The Narada and Vengeance attacks.
The 2 Borg Cube Incursions.
The Breen attack during the Dominion War.
But this is the hippie Federation we are talking about and Star Fleet is not a military.
Sure, the Enterprise is battered and limping, but she is still functional. You could have it give chase to the Vengeance and while they're closing in on her, all the easy options to stop her would be unavailable due to the damage. Wapons? Offline. Tractor beam? Not enough power to truly stop it. BUT! What if the Enterprise got above the Vengeance, used the tractor beam from above, and force the vengeance to hit the ocean? The ship comes to a dead stop just as it reaches the ocean with the Enterprise now hovering above the city. With this you have the crew saving Starfleet Headquarters in a battered ship and you can still have your dumb Khan footchase with Spock if you're so inclined.
The whole destruction of Starfleet headquarters just doesn't make any sense. Something that horrendous is played just as a set up to a footchase. Really? This kind of devastation should have had major repercussions!
in fact, I have a theory.
In an interview, Damon Lindelof said that there was supposed to be this scene where the Klingon fleet actually shows up in retaliation for what occurred on Kronos, and the only ship standing between Earth and the fleet is the battered up Enterprise. Uhura, in her second chance to deal with the Klingons, successfully manages to talk them out of attacking Earth. I think the crash into Starfleet Headquarters was meant to put Earth in a bind by throwing the HQ into chaos where they couldn't possibly respond to a massive Klingon fleet that was steadily approaching them. So by destroying Starfleet headquarters, it puts more pressure on Uhura's shoulders to try and diffuse an all out war since no one else can.
But hey, since Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof all agreed that Uhura hadn't 'earned' that moment (They much rather have her stab klingons in the groin), they removed that scene but still kept the crash.
Yeah, no. The Enterprise barely recovers from its own crash and recovered enough, and barely has transporter capability to beam Spock down. The physics of the whole thing are not adding up in my head.
I like the idea in theory-but it just isn't working in terms of the physics.
Now, personally, I agree with you that the destruction should not have happened 100%. I also agree the foot chase is dumb. But, I don't see this as being the solution.
Yes, it should. But, major devastation rarely has repercussions in any film much less a Star Trek one.
Well, I figured that the film does such a terrible job at portraying physics that I just assumed no one would care. I mean, a small hole caused by foam impact was enough to destroy an entire space shuttle on re-entry. And yet the Enterprise, which has several blown out holes spread across the entire ship survives re-entry with only slight burn marks. I think having the ship move forward, use the tractor beam for a few seconds and move down a tiny bit isn't asking for much suspension of disbelief by comparison.
The very fact that you think the Enterprise couldn't do this is precisely the reason why I wanted to see it. This could have been a moment where the crippled ship managed to save the day despite all odds. Not punching or shooting someone, but stopping a horrendous thing from causing catastrophic damage. Let the Enterprise be the dependable ship she was built to be.
But then you would take away Orci's 9/11 moment of a flying vehicle crashing into buildings, he would NOT stand for such an omission!
You and I have very different suspensions of disbelief. Star Trek has pretty much ignored physics for a long time but at least in this film I believed that the ship was in serious danger and could barely save itself.
For you it's small. For me, it doesn't quite work in the film as presented.
I agree with this idea. I have no problem with the idea in concept. I just think that, as the film stands now, it doesn't fit.
But, I agree that it would have added more to the film and would certainly have prefer that. But, then, I'm tired of this trend in modern films of destroying major cities with little to know consequence. ST ID is not alone this and my enjoyment is not diminished by this being present in a Trek film.
You can like it or dislike it, but let's not pretend Orci wasn't trying to provide some kind of commentary on 9/11 whether through imagery or character, especially since the film itself has a 9/11 dedication in the credits.
I'm rather indifferent to it.
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