Sfdebris reviews Star Trek into Darkness

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by The Overlord, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Like SF said. I think Orci's behavior writing this film and how he interacted with the fans speaks more about the quality of the work than his conspiracy theories.

    And if there was one lesson to take away from this review, it's this. What the general audiences wants and what Star Trek fans want are not mutually exclusive. The moment JJ said "This is not a movie for fans. It's a movie for movie fans", he created a needless rift. A rift that painted the fan base in a disingenuous light. Did he think that Star Trek fans only like things that they ask for? That has never been the case, even when the show runners of Star Trek thought that was what they were doing. Is it because he thinks Star Trek fans only watch Star Trek and nothing else? Please. I see a lot of other movies that are both dumber and smarter than anything JJ Abrams has produced. When we go see movies, we ARE the general audience.
     
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  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I never took Abrams' comments that way, and don't see the needless riff, any more than I see the need for fans to slam Abrams as "not a Star Trek fan!" Abrams owns the facts that he was not as in to Star Trek, but reading interviews with the man, he wanted to make Star Trek as accessible as possible, and he saw going back to Kirk and Spock as being that way.

    I think that is reading too much in to Abrams' comments because he demonstrated a desire to create film for everyone and I think ST 09 demonstrated that very successfully.
     
  3. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    I think making these movies 'for everyone' is what really creates a long term problem for the NuTrek films. You really can't make a film appeal to everyone. It's impossible. No one to this day knows what kind of a movie will bring in the audience and what will scare them away.

    Plus, movies that try to appeal to everyone don't normally have much staying power. Like SF said, "These films were loved in their day, until the next big thing came along and was forgotten." Nicholas Meyer wasn't a Star Trek fan when he did Wrath of Khan, but he didn't make the film to appeal to everyone either.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps, but that was not my take away. NuTrek may not have the staying power for all, but it has staying power for myself and for those who were introduced to Trek because of it. And, that, I think was Abrams intent. His film was accessible to everyone, those steeped in lore, those unfamiliar and everyone in between.

    I have a great deal respect for Meyer, and I love the fact that he did was Abrams did with TWOK. Meyer look at TOS determined what would make a good story and went with it, crafting a story he felt he would enjoy. I think Abrams did the same.

    I don't think NuTrek's lack of staying power is more of a reflection of the times we live in than anything else. However, I will grant that ST ID (in particular) succumbed to contemporary issues and had crashing buildings and mass destruction which has defined much of cinema in the 2000s.

    I will also agree that you cannot really make a film for everyone, but I don't think that should stop individuals from attempting to make a broad appeal of even a niche product. Which, ultimately, is what I think Abrams did and was successful at it with 09 at least.
     
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  5. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    I disagree. The difference between how JJ Abrams and Nicholas Meyer handled Star Trek is that Nicholas Meyer actually contributed to the story. JJ did not. He left the writing duties in the hands of his jerky friends who were more interested in appeasing him. And when your director spends every single waking moment on camera to remind audiences that he's not a Star Trek, and you're left with a pretty reasonable impression that this Director does not care about what he is directing.
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Then you and I will disagree since that is not the quotes I have (recently) read from the man regarding his process on creating Star Trek.

    But, I'm sure he was just lying to assague hurt Trek fans feelings...:shrug:
     
  7. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Well, JJ did hire two writers who have told Star Trek fans to fu** off.
     
  8. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    @Jeyl , if you're figuring on reciting again your extensive checklist of all the complaints large and small that you've decided you have concerning Abrams Trek — and that is what it very much looks like you're doing in your posts across several threads in this forum over the last day — please don't. Nearly everyone here has heard them all before, many, many, many times over.

    Participate in the current conversation, if you like, but save the itemized and re-re-re-re-re-re-recycled litany of grievances and just... archive it, so that you'll be able to gaze upon it any time you want, and no one else will have to.
     
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  9. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    I bet Midnight’s Edge is performing somersaults as we speak.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Not sure what has to do with anything so...:shrug:
    [​IMG]

    Regardless, I can tell you and I will not see eye to eye regarding Abrams, no matter opinions on his work. I think he and Nicholas Meyer added plenty to Star Trek and for that I'll be forever grateful to them.

    With that, I bid you cheers :beer:
     
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  11. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    Come on fireproof, having two of the writers telling fans how shitty they are is pretty bad form and not really good for publicity. You don’t stoop down to that level, you keep your head above it.
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I was discussing Abrams and his attitude towards working on Star Trek. I made no comment or mention of either writer and I don't agree with their comments or their decisions. Nor do I hold Abrams responsible for them making those comments. I don't know how one could...hence my confusion since it did not track from the prior conversation.

    Doesn't change my respect for Abrams and what he did with Star Trek 09 in particular.
     
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  13. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    I do think Abrams was a bit too honest with remarks over things like “Star Trek was too intellectual for me” or even bizarre ones like blaming the video game for the movie not doing as well at the box office as they projected. And taglines like “not your father’s Star Trek” is kind of an odd way to promote your movie.

    Whether intentional or not, they all drew lines by saying those remarks. The fan base is divided as it is, no need to give more reason to keep it that way (though I’m sure the most staunch haters would find reasons).
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    It's 2019 and some people are bringing their 2009 problems into this thread:p
     
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  15. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    STID had a lot of good (NuKhan's origins and the terrorism, triple-cross subplots were good).

    And a lot of bad - that magic blood on the magic bus was unworthy of sci-fi aimed at anyone whose IQ is over 50.

    I don't always agree with his reviews but, like Plinkett, he never fails to entertain - which is the main goal for review videos.
     
  16. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Got through part one and half of part two. He raises a number of great points. Especially when contrasting 1960s TOS clips of Kirk being real Kirk. He pointed out a couple surprising bits about the making-of as well, which I agree with - never mind entertainment is often taken from a real life event and then imagined in whatever direction the scriptwriter wants. I'll still watch "The Enterprise Incident", even with its plot holes, any day of the week to this 2 hour CGI show. I still like admiral robocop for surprising detail in a modern day movie, especially one that also uses "magic blood" and so superfluously. Never mind the lamest dialogue for Khan's laughable reveal, which was woodenly acted too and probably because Cumberbatch knows how egregiously naff it is.