Sex: then and now

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Logopolis, Oct 11, 2020.

?

Was it good for you? Is it good now?

  1. It didn't bother me then and it doesn't bother me now

  2. I didn't like it at the time but i'm indifferent to it now

  3. It was crass then and it's crass now

  4. I enjoyed it at the time but it's definitely showing its age now

  5. Loved it then, love it now

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Logopolis

    Logopolis Commander Red Shirt

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    I remember, back in the day, when the show first started that it was too racy.

    Obvious examples including the nudity, skin tight clothing and various sexualised situations.

    Given the direction that Trek has taken since, how does the more sexualised content seem in hindsight?
     
  2. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure the poll options apply to me. I have no problem with sex or nudity, but it was implemented on ENT so poorly. Really hamfisted stuff. But not quite as badly as Into Darkness. Jeez Louise.
     
  3. Logopolis

    Logopolis Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, apologies on the poll options.

    As I wrote them, I was trying to broaden what I felt was every possible reaction in terms of now vs. then whether someone's mind had changed or stayed the same.


    While this seems to cover it nicely.
     
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  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    I don't mind (nor particularly enjoy) sexualized or partial nudity scenes, as long as they fit into the story well. I have a problem with them when they seem to be there just for the sake of it, like for example making people on deep space assignments where combat can be expected walk around on high heels and skintight catsuits, or those silly decontamination scenes (have we ever seen two male characters rubbing one another?). My attitude hasn't changed in that over the past 20 years (though I haven't seen much of modern Trek yet), so I'd have to vote the first option.
     
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  5. amp

    amp Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff on Enterprise just reeked of desperation. Like they didn't believe in their storytelling ability and were saying, "Hey, male viewer aged 18-49, check out our hot female actresses. Please, please don't change the channel."

    The decon scenes were the worst because you knew they would never show two male crewmen rubbing gel on each other even though there are plenty of away missions where it seems warranted.
     
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  6. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It could've been handled much better. The decon scenes weren't racy enough. It doesn't make sense that they would wear underwear. And they're the furthest out in space, you could have Archer dealing exasperatingly with a crew who start mating like rabbits (T'Pol and Tucker, Hoshi and Travis, Reed and Major Hayes). Unexpected was a good start for regular series episodes, but they really punted the ball from there.
     
  7. B'elanna_Torres

    B'elanna_Torres Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    At least it had context, unlike Jar Jar's attempt at sex comedy during Into Darkness.
     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was impressed that the show was into exposing as much manflesh as it did, pretty startling as they seemed to realise that it's not just large-breasted women in little more than body paint that people want to see.
     
  9. B'elanna_Torres

    B'elanna_Torres Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This.
     
  10. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hated the decon scene in the pilot but that was down to the episode feeling by the numbers and unimaginative at that point and then shoving in some cheap titillation pissed me off.
     
  11. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Don't mind it when it serves the story, It just jammed in is a bit meh.
    Decon? Wouldn't I don't know.. a few private showers, or just a mist in the room? Them in there underwear was okay, it was the rubbing that left me.. Huh? I understand like a localized thing like, they got something on there hand or leg and something, but that part was a bit gratuitus.
    I love enterprise, but sometimes it seemed it was like an 80's movie with boobies put in at random intervals just because!
     
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  12. JamesRye

    JamesRye Commander Red Shirt

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    I find the trouble is that the 'sexy' stuff was just awkward and didn't fit in tonally with the show. Honestly, T'Pol's skintight catsuit in season 4 leaves nothing to the imagination and really dates the show. No way would that fly today. There's so many examples of childish and immature titillation in Ent, like that scene in Shadows of P'Jem where T'Pol falls chest-first onto Archers face.....totally cringey.
     
  13. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Captain Captain

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    The decon chamber was not a bad idea from a scientific perspective. But it was really used for titillation and not much else, considering how little of it was seen as the show progressed.

    I think skin tights outfits had been so common in Berman-era Trek that by the time of ENT, everyone was desensitized to it. Skin tight outfits made no sense either in the context of ENT in terms of a uniform, and the writers had the ability to make it make sense, like there is a subculture of Vulcans that favoured this type of uniform.

    T’Pol chest first into Archer’s face was cringey comedy, and a poor attempt to build a romance angle that wasn’t happening.

    I wasn’t bothered by the Trip & T’Pol scene in "Harbinger" at all. It was surprising at the time, since its not something Trek was synonymous with. But nothing worth censoring.

    The scenes in the Mirror Universe fit, considering it was well, the Mirror Universe. They are not as restrained as the Prime Universe, and has been established ever since “Mirror, Mirror.” However, everything was managed better in S4 though, including the sexy stuff.

    At the same time,

    like this post said, it did not go far enough in ENT. Considering its pre-Federation, wild west in space setting, its something that could have been addressed a few times in the show.

    ST ’09 & Into Darkness' scenes never bothered me, nor has what’s been in Kurtzman-Trek so far (but the way that Into Darkness scene was produced was done in a pointless manner). TBF, I’ve watched a lot of TV-MA shows with more explicit scenes that what’s ever been featured in Star Trek though. It doesn't register to me in terms of controversy.
     
  14. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. 7 of 9's costume too.

    Have a matter of fact approach to sex and nudity by all means. Show bits of bodies if you want to. Just make it an integral part of the show rather than trying to sneak a bit of tittilation in like 13 year old boys.

    Ooh, let's rub nude people in baby oil in the decontamination chamber, put the girl with big tits in a skintight outfit...oo-er, snicker !!!!

    Pathetic.
     
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  15. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So full Starship Troopers all sexes in the shower? Hey, its 80 people in tight quarters for years, there won't be much secrecy going on, and there all "professional" and if it requires to get minimally dresssed or naked for reasons, then hey go for it.
    I remember at the end of the one with Reed, T'pol and Hoshi in the the decon chamber, and there just sitting there like its a Sauna, that didn't bother me.
    Now you have to rub, Break out the Brissel Brushes and really peal off those 5 layers of skin!!
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, I think that's what it comes down to with the ENT scenes-they feel pointless.

    It didn't bother me in any way but it was so utterly pointless that I just skipped the scene because it felt narratively unnecessary.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IMHO, the decon chamber should be as automatic as a sonic shower. You go in, UV light is shined upon you like BZZZZZZZ, you're done. (Like in The Andromeda Strain.) No reason for any kind of decon "gel" to be applied manually.

    Sure, there's no actual reason people in decon wear any kind of clothing, but this is TV after all. Not a chance in hell we'll actually see them naked. Besides, I'm sure the technology level is such that a fully automatic decon chamber could clean you up even if you're clothed.
     
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  18. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They could've had a number of these showers with dividers between them and "frosted" glass screens to obscure things for longshots whilst midshots/closeups of the actors from collar up for women and waist up for men. Conversations could be carried out just as easily.

    Trip and T'Pol bickering over the wall would work just as well as rubbing gel on one another in Broken Bow.
     
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  19. B'elanna_Torres

    B'elanna_Torres Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's a medical procedure.

    The Doctor should be applying the gel.

    I mean, I won't lie, I loved this scene but I was distracted by its lack of logic since, in that situation, I would want to be attended to by the medic rather than another member of the crew who is also potentially infected.

    In fact, i'm going to re-watch this scene right now with COVID eyes.
     
  20. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I can live with it with it being a bit more primitive, this being the 22nd century rather than the 24th. Although I still would expect it to be a bit more advanced than manually having to rub decon gel. Perhaps we can rationalize it by earth still being relatively unfamiliar with all kinds of exo-microorganisms and therefore deciding that the old fashioned time tested way is best.