Seven of Nine
- Thread starter Praetor
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I have to admit that I've never bothered with all these inconsistencies you see. I enjoy the episodes as they are.
I haven't watched all the other series or read all the books and maybe that's part of the reason why I don't worry about such things, but to tell the truth I don't think I'd care anyway. Perhaps because I wouldn't be storing all that information. If the episode flows and are interesting to me, I couldn't care less how inconsistent it might seem if you compare to info from all the other shows etc.
However, I have to admit that the part you mention above did bother me a bit, but I always told myself that it didn't really work - the device that is - it just seemed like it did.
That Janeway decided to use it in the first place was stupid, she should have known that the Borg had most likely assimilated the technology and adapted to it, and she should have come up with another way, but I've always thought - or persuaded myself to think - that the reason it actually seemed to work for awhile is plain and simple because the Queen allowed it.
She wanted Seven, had contacted her on Voyager - it wouldn't be so far fetched that she'd allow Janeway to think that her newly found miracle technology was working.
Having said that...I love Janeway and I don't care how many inconsistencies people see in her. Her flaws are part of what makes her so dear to me and so human.
There have been books written (several in fact) about the inconsistencies of different Trek series. The Nitpicker's guides were very good at pointing them out and the guy that wrote them quit before he could even start on Voyager.
Trek in general has always been about the possibilities, and I mean that in the highest order. Trek has been about a future where we are better than we are now, where as time passes we turn enemies into friends. Whatever darkness touched them was overcome, and that darkness only accentuated the light.
I know it hasn't been fashionable lately to "like" happy endings, but that was the very basis of Trek from the beginning. Kirk could hate the Klingons, but he could also have compassion for them. Picard could hate the Borg, but he was also able to pull himself out of that hatred in order to overcome them. Sisko faced the biggest Darkness of all and lived through it to come out on the other side.
For me Trek has never been "about how we deal with death," because like Kirk, death is to be cheated. Trek has been about hope, and the promise of a better future.
Brit
Trek in general has always been about the possibilities, and I mean that in the highest order. Trek has been about a future where we are better than we are now, where as time passes we turn enemies into friends. Whatever darkness touched them was overcome, and that darkness only accentuated the light.
I know it hasn't been fashionable lately to "like" happy endings, but that was the very basis of Trek from the beginning. Kirk could hate the Klingons, but he could also have compassion for them. Picard could hate the Borg, but he was also able to pull himself out of that hatred in order to overcome them. Sisko faced the biggest Darkness of all and lived through it to come out on the other side.
For me Trek has never been "about how we deal with death," because like Kirk, death is to be cheated. Trek has been about hope, and the promise of a better future.
Brit
That's how I've always seen the character. I find it impossible to accept the Queen as the "leader" of the Borg, no matter what terms get thrown around by the writers / characters. I just assume that I'm a lot smarter than they are. lol
a reflected will of all of the individuals and expression of their emotions all rolled up in one person, and also acknowledge that 'she' has the personality of a spoiled little girl - not unlike a certain V'Ger from 'TMP' eh?
I'm not sure I buy the personality thing; I don't think it really holds up. I mean that's definitely how she's presented (but she's also presented as the leader) but would the sum total of trillions of lives behave like a bitchy little girl? I don't think so. But I also acknowledge that a lot is going on around me at the moment and my brain has turned to mush, so I might not be thinking about this as clearly as I usually would.
at least it's enjoyable.
It is actually. I enjoy it a lot more when I take it as a single installment, that's not really connected to anything else. Then the Fake Continuity & Aliens rip-off, & Borg nonsense is a lot less annoying. If I shut off my brain, and just take it for what it is - it's almost really good. There are still annoyances, but I choose to overlook them. Which is hard for me, but easier now than it was when it aired. It's not as satisfying as watching something that rocks when my brain is turned on, but it does salvage this installment for me, and that's sort of a good thing. It takes an episode that I really hated and turns it into a pretty good Seven / Janeway story. But after it's over, my brain turns back on, and then the pieces still don't fit. But at least I can let myself enjoy the episode on it's own.
That's how I've always seen the character. I find it impossible to accept the Queen as the "leader" of the Borg, no matter what terms get thrown around by the writers / characters. I just assume that I'm a lot smarter than they are. lol
Agreed.
a reflected will of all of the individuals and expression of their emotions all rolled up in one person, and also acknowledge that 'she' has the personality of a spoiled little girl - not unlike a certain V'Ger from 'TMP' eh?
I'm not sure I buy the personality thing; I don't think it really holds up. I mean that's definitely how she's presented (but she's also presented as the leader) but would the sum total of trillions of lives behave like a bitchy little girl? I don't think so. But I also acknowledge that a lot is going on around me at the moment and my brain has turned to mush, so I might not be thinking about this as clearly as I usually would.
Well the way I see it is that they're essentially one 'person' and that person has been shaped by getting what it wants through subversive conquest for hundreds or thousands of years. Now, 'she's' become rather petty about it when she isn't getting what 'she' wants over something 'trivial' and results to ridiculous extremes to get it.
Now compare that to 'The Bad Seed' and see if you see what I mean.
john titor
Captain
I didn't like her character at all. I found the tone of voice she spoke in to be grating. Also the relationship with Janeway was lame, and god knows we don't need any more Janeway in Voy. I found her performance was a bit in your face as was the character and the fact that she dominated the show. In addition the constant borg are superior and learning to be human lines were yawn. T'Pol on the other hand was much better (if we're to compare catsuit clad actresses), she was understated, calm and provided a logical counterbalance to the madness of Archer and Trip, someone who was just cool to have around. I would have prefered (in an ideal world) for Lien to be drafted in to play Seven, as again, I find her acting calmer, subtle and more understated, and obviously for Kes not to have been in the show in the first place.
I have always thought of the Queen as the one Borg individual whose identity is drawn from being Borg. That you see her as having rather unfortunate child like qualities is interesting, because I see that too. I’ve come to the conclusion that Borg queens are females taken at a young age, after the id has formed but before the controlling ego, somewhere between the ages of five and seven for humans.
There could be some kind of enforced trauma at assimilation that would break familial connections, so the child would see herself as Borg first. I’ve always thought that Seven of Nine fit this scenario.
The Borg queen makes an almost throwaway line in “Unimatrix Zero” when she tells a young boy. “I was just about your age when I was assimilated.”
That would explain a lot about Seven, because she was different from any other freed Borg we saw on screen. For instance she had an emotional damper, which apparently no one else had. Not Picard, not Icheb not even Janeway, Tuvok or B’Elanna, Seven couldn’t even use her real name Annika.
I think that truly the Queen was “The one who speaks.” Not the leader of the Borg because that had to be some kind of mechanical entity, she was it’s mouth.
Brit
There could be some kind of enforced trauma at assimilation that would break familial connections, so the child would see herself as Borg first. I’ve always thought that Seven of Nine fit this scenario.
The Borg queen makes an almost throwaway line in “Unimatrix Zero” when she tells a young boy. “I was just about your age when I was assimilated.”
That would explain a lot about Seven, because she was different from any other freed Borg we saw on screen. For instance she had an emotional damper, which apparently no one else had. Not Picard, not Icheb not even Janeway, Tuvok or B’Elanna, Seven couldn’t even use her real name Annika.
I think that truly the Queen was “The one who speaks.” Not the leader of the Borg because that had to be some kind of mechanical entity, she was it’s mouth.
Brit
It's interesting, because this theory jibes rather well with the one put forth in the game 'Star Trek: Legacy' which was written by the great TOS scribe Dorothy C. Fontana and tried to reconcile the various elements of the Borg mythos.
Basically, the background suggests that the Borg was originally made by a time-travelling evolved V'Ger after realizing that it needed both cybernetic and organic elements to complete its renewed mission. The Queens (there are many of them) was an adaptation that originated after assimilating that species - a race of telepaths who were literally 'able to bring order to chaos' with their mental abilities and sift through the minds of the countless drones. (Of course the Borg eventually rebelled against V'Ger or V'Ger just left, I forget which.) But the succession of Queens are all female members of this race who have their brains somewhat altered to fulfill this role.
I personally prefer to think of the Queen as the central brains rather than the mouths. The only time the Collective wanted mouths was when it assimilated Picard and made him Locutus.
Wasn't it also posited in one of the more recent Trek novels that Seven was a 'Queen candidate'?
It's a short-term recurring role, 3 episodes.
It's a bit of a commute for her, don't you think?
L&O shoots in NY. Her home is in LA.
Who's she married to these days? I know she has a restaurant out there, and a kid.
She is married to her partner in the restaurant, who is also the executive chef: http://www.ortolanrestaurant.com/
His name is Christophe Eme, and he's pretty darn cute. And the only reason I know this is because I am addicted to the Food Network, including Iron Chef America.
His name is Christophe Eme, and he's pretty darn cute. And the only reason I know this is because I am addicted to the Food Network, including Iron Chef America.
Per some poll among LA foodies, he's been the Sexiest Chef in LA for 4 years running.
Really nice guy, too.
Yeah, but lots of actors work & have condo's in NYC and fly back to their "real" homes in L.A. for the weekends. Plus, having children doesn't seem to stop people from that type of life style anymore either.
...but only 3 eps., I'm disappointed.
However, on Law & Order you never know.
Lots of actors on it have played dual roles
Ice-T for example played a drug dealer before being recast as a detective.
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