^^ And I stand by my words, too. I'm just not deep enough to worry about nacelles.
Who is?
Seven of Nine
- Thread starter Praetor
- Start date
Who is?
They could have done it in subtle ways - they were much more successful with the Doctor, for example. Here's one not particularly subtle way: They could have given her quarters and shown a few seconds of her off duty. Or they could have given her other clothes to wear off duty. Or they could have shown her occasionally reacting, maybe for just a few seconds, as a human instead of as a former drone.
There are all kinds of subtle things that could have been done and weren't, at least not that I noticed.
*is puzzled at Tachyon's puzzlement*
^^ And I stand by my words, too. I'm just not deep enough to worry about nacelles.
Who is?
Oh, they are out there. You know they are. They frighten me!
Wasn't there enough of Seven already, that's what I'll ask. I really didn't need to see her more off-duty. She just did her thing (way too often for my taste, though she had brilliant moments as well) and went to regenerate. Her friendship with Naomi was a great way to show her growing more human. I think that was enough for me. I didn't miss more than that from her.
I don't expect quick change. I expect consistency. At the end of an episode she'd be like "Well maybe this "feelings" thing isn't so bad." And then by the very next one she'd be like "Feelings are for stupid heads.".
I don't see it as a problem of inconsistency at all. Maybe she thought about it and decided that feelings she faced before are not relevant enough to be expressed during her daily routines onboard Voyager.
I need more concrete example of this inconsistency until I can be on a same page with you.
It sounds like you expect her personality to change with every lesson she learns. As she told Janeway twice, I have used you as my guide to humanity but I also choose to be different than you. It's also way she still chooses to remain "Seven of Nine" and not "Annika Hansen". Seven will always idenitify herself as Borg first before human. So no matter what lessons she learns, her outlook on humaity will change but her personality will remain Borg.
However, Seven's changes are seen & are subtle. Seven from "Day of Honor" wanted to be left alone in her cargo bay, Seven in "11:59" was a ease sitting around with her crewmates listing to tales about their families.
^ Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I didn't see it, certainly not with any degree of consistency. Maybe when I watch the show again, I'll see it. Maybe.
No, I didn't expect her to change overnight. I did expect her to change, though.
No, I didn't expect her to change overnight. I did expect her to change, though.
Neelix & Tuvok are no different.
Neelix proved his worth in "The Rise" and earned Tuvoks respect, the next ep. he was back to belittling him.
It just means, like regular people not everyone changes their opinions based on one incident.
Yep. Also B'Elanna seems to come to grips with her Klingon heritage in "Barge of the Dead," only to turn around and try to erase anything Klingon in her unborn daughter in "Lineage."
^ & ^^ Yes, that's absolutely right. This was a problem with Voyager. It's not unique to Voyager, but inconsistency is something the show battled with often (or at least that I battled with as I watched and otherwise enjoyed the show). I think it was a bit worse with the Seven character - perhaps because she became so central to the show - but it's a problem for other characters as well. But since this is a thread about Seven...
I'm not trying to dismiss your arguement in any way, so please don't take it as such, I respect your opinion coming from your POV but from my POV, it just seems like you're nitpicking.
Exodus said:
Oh, no, I didn't think you were "dismissing" me. I just think we disagree. And as for nitpicking...well, you're the one who started citing specific episodes...
Kidding. That's not nitpicking, that's bolstering your case. I acknowledge your examples, but I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with a consistent pattern of such examples - not only with Seven but with most of the other characters who were on growth-arcs, if I can call them that, as well. The exception is the Doctor, whose growth was portrayed fairly consistently, as far as I can recall. I just think they should have done that with everybody. What's the point in talking about growth, in making growth a central point of the character, if you don't show it?
I really dislike the tendency of TV in general, even on generally well-written shows - and I'm talking about all TV (American TV, anyway); this isn't just a Trek thing - to use their characters as props instead of as people...to modify the characters as needed to make for a good plot, rather than to make the plot fit around the characters. Good TV shows don't do this often, but all TV shows do it sometimes, and Trek is no exception. And I think Seven is a perfect example of this. Others disagree. So it goes.
Last edited:
Depends on what you're looking for.Exodus said:
Oh, no, I didn't think you were "dismissing" me. I just think we disagree. And as for nitpicking...well, you're the one who started citing specific episodes...
Kidding. That's not nitpicking, that's bolstering your case. I acknowledge your examples, but I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with a consistent pattern of such examples - not only with Seven but with most of the other characters who were on growth-arcs, if I can call them that, as well. The exception is the Doctor, whose growth was portrayed fairly consistently, as far as I can recall. I just think they should have done that with everybody. What's the point in talking about growth, in making growth a central point of the character, if you don't show it?
Character growth with characters like Neelix, Tuvok & Kim are subtle and not as in your face as Seven's or the EMH was but it was there.
I tend to agree that Voyager in particular had 'spotty' character growth for this reason:
Additionally, we know that the network was pushing for a show that would be easily accessible to new viewers and thus not heavily serialized from week to week, so perhaps character development also fell victim as a result.
Additionally, we know that the network was pushing for a show that would be easily accessible to new viewers and thus not heavily serialized from week to week, so perhaps character development also fell victim as a result.
Due to the All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Voyager "Reset Button(tm)".
Exactly. Some character evolution would have been called for. Not a lot. But a little would have been nice. But that would have been too radical for Braga.
I can't remember the name of the episode, but it's the one where Captain Braxton gets Seven to help prevent the destruction of Voyager by using temporal technology to place her at the point where the sabotage is enacted. Seven is wearing a standard Starfleet uniform in this episode, which I think is the first and only time we see it. She looks great and like a proper member of the crew.
I guess the reason why they didn't put her in a uniform during her service about Voyager is because she isn't a Starfleet officer, and neither was Kes or Neelix (neither of them wore uniforms). So, I understand the reason for doing something different. But yes, high heels are seriously impractical for someone who participates in tactical situations. We don't see people leveraging pockets at all, so yes--a catsuit could work out. But I do wonder... does Seven always regenerate? Did she ever recover her ability to eat? If not, then there's no need to shed the catsuit for bio breaks.
As for character development, they did jump around in her "development", as I see it. I chalk it up to gradual character evolvement. One may learn something new but then not fully embrace it (so depending on her mood, she might be more human or Borg).
I guess the reason why they didn't put her in a uniform during her service about Voyager is because she isn't a Starfleet officer, and neither was Kes or Neelix (neither of them wore uniforms). So, I understand the reason for doing something different. But yes, high heels are seriously impractical for someone who participates in tactical situations. We don't see people leveraging pockets at all, so yes--a catsuit could work out. But I do wonder... does Seven always regenerate? Did she ever recover her ability to eat? If not, then there's no need to shed the catsuit for bio breaks.
As for character development, they did jump around in her "development", as I see it. I chalk it up to gradual character evolvement. One may learn something new but then not fully embrace it (so depending on her mood, she might be more human or Borg).
You owe me a beer.
Similar threads
