Seven of Nine

[JustKate]

Yes, but I suspect, Teya and Es, that neither one of you would wear that catsuit to work. Depending on where you work, of course.

There's nothing wrong with dressing sexy off-duty. In fact, that would have been nice for Trek generally if we could have sometimes seen a clear difference between duty clothes and play clothes, rather than those dreary things that Trek wardrobe tended to put people in on those few occasions when it bothered with civvies. Teya's right that the fashions tend to be awful - it's pretty sad when the most colorful things most people wear are their uniforms. If they could have done it well, I think that would have been great. But that's a topic for another thread.(There was one 2-3 weeks ago in the general Trek forum.) I suspect it was primarily done for budget reasons, though I think that's kind of a lame excuse, but heck, maybe they really think people in the 24th century will like boring clothes. I suspect they are wrong about that, though.

So I think that addresses your "double-standard" point, Exodus. Did Kirk go shirtless on the bridge? No, he did not. There's a time and a place for everything.

As for the age thing, I'm 51, so I don't think your logic applies to me there either.

Anyway, the point isn't "Did Seven look good in the catsuit?" because of course she did. She'd look good in a burlap bag. The point is, "What should a member of the Voyager crew wear to work?" That catsuit is marginal - the stupid high-heel shoes are not. And even if the costume did originally have a point, opaque as that point might be to me, why not use her wardrobe to help show her evolution as a character? She could so easily have looked beautiful and sexy in any number of wardrobe choices, but instead, they went for trashy.

I don't get the no quarters thing, either, Teya and Praetor. Yet another lost opportunity to allow the character to evolve past "poor little drone girl" status.

 

[exodus]

Yes, but I suspect, Teya and Es, that neither one of you would wear that catsuit to work. Depending on where you work, of course.

There's nothing wrong with dressing sexy off-duty. In fact, that would have been nice for Trek generally if we could have sometimes seen a clear difference between duty clothes and play clothes, rather than those dreary things that Trek wardrobe tended to put people in on those few occasions when it bothered with civvies. Teya's right that the fashions tend to be awful - it's pretty sad when the most colorful things most people wear are their uniforms. If they could have done it well, I think that would have been great. But that's a topic for another thread.(There was one 2-3 weeks ago in the general Trek forum.) I suspect it was primarily done for budget reasons, though I think that's kind of a lame excuse, but heck, maybe they really think people in the 24th century will like boring clothes. I suspect they are wrong about that, though.

So I think that addresses your "double-standard" point, Exodus. Did Kirk go shirtless on the bridge? No, he did not. There's a time and a place for everything.

As for the age thing, I'm 51, so I don't think your logic applies to me there either.

Anyway, the point isn't "Did Seven look good in the catsuit?" because of course she did. She'd look good in a burlap bag. The point is, "What should a member of the Voyager crew wear to work?"

Oh come on seriously, she wasn't even Starfleet.

She was a citizen. If they were in the Alpha Quad., she wouldn't be allowed to do any "work" onboard a starship anyway because she just a citizen, not an officer. Seven has no obligations nor does she need to adhere to Starfleet dress codes while on duty. Kirk is a captain, of course he couldn't go shirtless on the bridge.

It falls into the theme of her being an individual.

 

[JustKate]

^ Oh, Exodus!

Do you really think it's in character for an individual as practical as Seven to choose to teeter around a starship in high heels all day every day? Not just off duty or sometimes but all the time?

I mean, if they'd had her gradually evolve into this sex goddess who wanted to look sexy all the time, the outfit might have made sense. But she moves directly from Borg armor into the catsuit with of course silly high heels.

You like the catsuit and high heels, that's fine - she looks gorgeous in them. But why pretend they make sense as a plot device when they don't?

 

[The Badger]

Maybe catsuits and heels are accepted civilian clothes in Voyager's time? And if so, where can I get me a time machine?

 

[JustKate]

Did the Doc really put her in those things? That's what Praetor said, I think. I'm starting to suspect an ulterior motive here...

 

[teya]

You like the catsuit and high heels, that's fine - she looks gorgeous in them. But why pretend they make sense as a plot device when they don't?

But the only person asking for them to make sense as a plot device is you. As a result, people are trying to do so.

 

[teya]

Did the Doc really put her in those things? That's what Praetor said, I think. I'm starting to suspect an ulterior motive here...

Yep, the Doc designed Seven's wardrobe.

He said so in "The Gift" and again in "STWOM."

 

[JustKate]

You like the catsuit and high heels, that's fine - she looks gorgeous in them. But why pretend they make sense as a plot device when they don't?

But the only person asking for them to make sense as a plot device is you. As a result, people are trying to do so.

I'm not the only one who's mentioned the catsuit, Teya - in this thread and others having to do with Seven. (And might I also add that when I mentioned that I thought I might be off-topic, Praetor the OP said I was not.) But yeah, call me naive, I do think wardrobe ought to go with the plot. Isn't that what wardrobe is for? Otherwise, why not dress everybody in business suits or Robin Hood tights or Bozo the Clown costumes? Maggie in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof doesn't wear that slip in the first scene for no reason at all.

 

[The Badger]

Did the Doc really put her in those things? That's what Praetor said, I think. I'm starting to suspect an ulterior motive here...

The Doctor's creator Lewis Zimmerman always seemed a bit lecherous to me. Maybe some of that got into the programming?

 

[JustKate]

^ That is a facet of his personality that never struck me. Until now. Interesting, Badger.

 

[teya]

But yeah, call me naive, I do think wardrobe ought to go with the plot. Isn't that what wardrobe is for?

It's one of the things wardrobe is for, not the only thing wardrobe is for.

Wardrobe serves to give a visual snapshot of a character--and that snapshot doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the action.

 

[exodus]

^ Oh, Exodus!

Do you really think it's in character for an individual as practical as Seven to choose to teeter around a starship in high heels all day every day? Not just off duty or sometimes but all the time?

I don't know, do you expect someone that's been a slave most of their life to suddenly understand or care about fashion?

Maybe it's where I'm from or the people I associate with but I'm used to people who do have good figures & work hard to keep them that way having less inhibition about showing them off. Jeri Ryan should be proud of the disappline she uses to keep her body in such great shape, the siut shows of that effort. In a metaphorical sense, if Seven is Borg and they strive to be perfect, not having a perfect body would be a huge contradiction. Right?

 

[exodus]

^ That is a facet of his personality that never struck me. Until now. Interesting, Badger.

Check out DS9, he goes after the women with the largest boobs on the station and won't take "no" for an answer.

 

[JustKate]

^ Oh, Exodus!

Do you really think it's in character for an individual as practical as Seven to choose to teeter around a starship in high heels all day every day? Not just off duty or sometimes but all the time?

I don't know, do you expect someone that's been a slave most of their life to suddenly understand or care about fashion?

Maybe it's where I'm from or the people I associate with but I'm used to people who do have good figures & work hard to keep them that way having less inhibition about showing them off. Jeri Ryan should be proud of the disappline she uses to keep her body in such great shape, the siut shows of that effort. In a metaphorical sense, if Seven is Borg and they strive to be perfect, not having a perfect body would be a huge contradiction. Right?

As I've pointed out at somewhat tedious length now (sorry, but people keep asking me ), I don't have nearly as big of a problem with the suit as with the stupid shoes, which unlike the catsuit (hey, at least it won't get in your way or get caught in machinery) have no practical value at all.

They are there for one reason only and that reason has nothing to do with the plots or with the identity of the character Seven - they are there because high-heeled shoes tend to flatter the female figure while gnawing on the female's feet. I should know - I have and wear many pairs myself. Yes, Jeri Ryan should wear a catsuit whenever she feels it appropriate. But...you do know that the character Seven isn't the same person as the actor Jeri Ryan, right? Just pointing that out. So what Jeri should do and what Seven should do aren't exactly the same thing. I've seen Jeri look perfectly stunning in a satin cocktail dress, for example, but that doesn't mean Seven should wear that while working on the warp core or something. Maybe you disagree. She did look just beautiful.

 

[Captain Gandalf]

^ Oh, Exodus!

Do you really think it's in character for an individual as practical as Seven to choose to teeter around a starship in high heels all day every day? Not just off duty or sometimes but all the time?

The catsuit might have had a practical use (after all, the Doc designed it), but the high heels are certainly not logical, especially for a Borg, who thinks in terms of perfection and efficiency. A pair of Nikes would probably be the choice of a Borg, considering all the running about the ship.
Then again, the Doc may have convinced her she had to wear them to "fit in" to suit his erotic holodreams about her.
All in all, I thought she was an interesting character.

 

[teya]

They are there for one reason only and that reason has nothing to do with the plots or with the identity of the character Seven - they are there because high-heeled shoes tend to flatter the female figure while gnawing on the female's feet. I should know - I have and wear many pairs myself. Yes, Jeri Ryan should wear a catsuit whenever she feels it appropriate. But...you do know that the character Seven isn't the same person as the actor Jeri Ryan, right? Just pointing that out. So what Jeri should do and what Seven should do aren't exactly the same thing. I've seen Jeri look perfectly stunning in a satin cocktail dress, for example, but that doesn't mean Seven should wear that while working on the warp core or something. Maybe you disagree. She did look just beautiful.

First, I doubt you'd ever see Jeri in a catsuit outside of a dance studio.

And second, I think you're all overthinking this costume.

Sometimes a costume is just a costume. And yeah, part of a costume's purpose is to make the actor look good.

 

[JustKate]

First, I doubt you'd ever see Jeri in a catsuit outside of a dance studio.

And second, I think you're all overthinking this costume.

Sometimes a costume is just a costume. And yeah, part of a costume's purpose is to make the actor look good.

back atcha!

But Teya, if we didn't debate minutia on the Trek BBS what in the heck would we talk about? I think everything that can possibly be said about TOS's miniskirts and Deanna's cleavage has already been said.

Anyway, call me shallow, but I find this discussion far more interesting than one about, say, nacelles, or how horrible/awesome a movie nobody's seen yet is going to be.

 

[The Badger]

^ That is a facet of his personality that never struck me. Until now. Interesting, Badger.

Check out DS9, he goes after the women with the largest boobs on the station and won't take "no" for an answer.

Yeah, he tries it on with Leeta the Dabo girl during the episode. After she goes of with Rom, he starts hitting on a female passenger on his transport, asking if she is familiar with the Karma Sutra.
Subtle.

Ultimately, the real reason Seven wore a catsuit and heels was to get blokes watching (the Emma Peel effect). There was a line from the Doctor about how the outfit would help her adapt to life without the exoskeleton, but let's be honest here, that was just a handwave justification. If we want to I'm sure us genius's could come up with a plausible sounding explanation for the heels, but that is a matter for personal preference.

But, as JustKate points out, it is at least an interesting discussion.

 

[mirandafave]

The heels were part of her borg implants that couldn't be removed without risking her life! Unfortunately not even any of the Borg children had spares ones to go and anytime Seven wanted to raid a Borg sphere to help get rid of them she had to wrap it up in a little plan for Janeway, such as replacement warp coils etc. The lengths she had to go to and still she couldn't get rid. Gotta feel sorry for her.

 

[JustKate]

^ I used to work with a woman who claimed to have "Barbie feet" - she wore high heels all the time. I wonder if that was all a ploy to hide her Borg nature?