News Seth MacFarlane’s The Orville

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Kai "the spy", Aug 27, 2016.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    They didn't have the right to make that decision, that was why there was a trial on Moclan soil, decided by the Moclan jury. Humans fought for human values, and lost.
     
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  2. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    If one's inclined to take it seriously, one can invent all kinds of things.

    Some distant time ago there was a plague that disproportionately affected female children or women pregnant with female children. For whatever reason, Moclan geneticists were forced to address it by rendering genetic males capable of childbirth rather than curing the disease (to disproportionately affect one sex doesn't require that the disease be "genetic," only that certain gender-linked genes confer some immunity that others don't).

    The percentage of female Moclans carried to term continued to crash until such births are extremely rare.

    Invent some reason that the folks ruling the planet decided that it was in the best interests of "society" to discourage such births.

    And damn if these rationalizations aren't more work than they're worth. ;)
     
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  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    At least we aren't rationalizing because of names and dates on a calendar. This is far more interesting.
     
  4. McDuff

    McDuff Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Isaac: In fact, a Moclan female is born roughly once every 75 years.
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Which is propaganda from the Moclan. Clyden was born a female.
     
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  6. McDuff

    McDuff Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It could be propaganda, but it's also possible the statistic still hold true in average despite Clyden being born female.

    Since males have the ability to lay egg, it may be perfectly natural for them (unless they were modified genetically to do so, which is speculative). As a species, they may be naturally transitioning toward a single gender species. As we were ourselves transitioning from laying eggs to carrying a fetus at one point in our evolutionary history. Still no need to enforce sex change, not all Moclan need to be born alike and being born female, even for Moclan, is certainly not pathological. They obviously can contribute to the society, they are healthy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  7. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Captain Captain

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    In one of my first posts, I have said that I expected nothing from Orville because it was the best way not to be disappointed and I must admit that after to have finally watched episodes 2 & 3, I can say that 1) I like the crew* (even if the humour of Mercer, Malloy & LaMarr is a bit heavy, sometimes) and 2) the stories are interesting. In short, ‎I continue the adventure with The Orville! :-D

    * my ‎favorite characters already are Kelly Grayson, Dr. Claire Finn, Alara Kitan, Isaac & of course, Bortus.

    I have a question: do you know if show will continue to be aired on Thursdays?
     
  8. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    The Orville is not the personal taxi service of its crew, and transporting a child to a location where that child will be subjected to a procedure you consider immoral does make you complicit in that action. It's no different than you driving your friend and his baby daughter to the house of someone will perform genital mutilation on the child. By driving your friend and his baby, you are complicit in what happens to the child. Bortus isn't just asking the Captain not to impose his values on him. He's asking the Captain to choose Moclan values over his own and become complicit in the act.
    I believe that's it's normal time. That's how it was listed before the pilot aired. It was always going to move to Thursdays.
     
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  9. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    I find it amusing how Doctor Finn was stumped at giving an answer to the comparison to circumcision.
     
  10. McDuff

    McDuff Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The Orville is not a prison either. It can be said, the Orville (and Union employer) doesn't have the right to stop an employee from leaving the ship with his own child. The Orville is not a prison.

    Only the doctor was in her right to refuse to carry the sex change procedure since it goes against her own laws (humans don't do sex change on babies unless for health reason). Of course, I don't know why Bortus had his child on a spaceship (beside to make a couple of good stories for a tv show), it's a dangerous place and not his home/"hospital".


    It's different, hence why there was some dilemma. Moclan are a different species in which males can lay eggs. They are biologically different than us and have their own laws and moral values (also a sex change procedure is much more dramatic/life changing than (partial) genital mutilation).

    Even in the case of genital mutilation, circumcision of the prepuce in human child is allowed. The baby doesn't give his consent. Do you want to stop human baby circumcision because you find it immoral? Of course, you may not want it for your own child but will you stop other people on earth to do so?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  11. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Given that its a procedure performed for religious reasons but also non-medical/non-religious reasons would have been a question difficult to answer in court settings when you have advoates who pretty much want a yes/no answer.

    For Finn it was a no-win situation.

    Speaking of no-win scenarios, does The Orville need it's own revision of the Kobyashi Maru?
     
  12. starsuperion

    starsuperion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Loved all the first 3 episodes! About a Girl, reminded me of the Trial of Data episode! fantastic!
     
  13. Big Data

    Big Data Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    This show is really scratching my Trek itch, especially episode 3. Not sure whether not I can hang in with Discovery.
     
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  14. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Bortus and his husband could have simply asked for leave and gotten off at the first starbase the Orville stopped at with their baby. The Orville need not deliver them directly. By putting the Captain in a situation where he had to deliver the child, he made the captain responsible for what happened afterwards. There is a difference between not stopping Bortus and actively participating in the child's transport.
    Circumcision and genital mutilation are not even remotely equivalent. You can argue that circumcision is "mutilation of the male genitalia", but I'm referring to female genital mutilation, which is an extreme procedure that, in the best case scenario, permanently robs a woman of sensation during intercourse, and at worst causes severe medical problems or even death if not performed under the proper conditions. Female genital mutilation is illegal in many jurisdictions, especially in Western countries. Circumcision, by comparison, is not much more dangerous than getting an ear pierced.

    Note that the Transport for Female Genital Mutilation Act makes it a crime to transport a minor out of the United States for the purpose of performing FGM, and women can get asylum in the US to prevent such a procedure from being performed on their daughters.
     
  15. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's how I take it as well. It's rare (something like 1 in 75 years or something IIRC) because it's been unnecessary ever since the genetic milestone was reached where males could reproduce either with one another, or on their own (not sure which is the case here)

    It also creates an interesting parallel with humanity's future as well, with the advent of in vitro ferilization, stem cell manipulation, & fetus incubators, there exists the potential of one or the other human sex becoming unnecssary

    There's one thing I've been wondering about this episode that I can't remember. Have they even actually established a Starfleet-esque non-interference directive on this show as of yet?
     
  16. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seth McFarlane has said there's no Prime Directive in the Orville universe.
     
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  17. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Captain Captain

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    Well, not sure that Thursday is the right day/ time slot, epsecially with the return of Grey's Anatomy on ABC.

    About 1x02, I'm surprised to see that after Grayson and Bortus, it is Kitan, who at 22/23 yo, is the 3rd in command. I mean, yes, she is ranked Lieutenant but as Malloy and LaMarr, who have the advantage too, of being older and seem more experienced, right?! :shrug:

    About the change gender in 1x03, even if the Moclan court decision is regrettable, it is in a certain sense, logic (when custom and fear of the difference impose themselves to the right to live with differences).
    -> it would be interesting to see the little Clyden acting & feeling like a girl though she was forced to be a boy by Moclans ... and Bortus accepting this situation (protecting & loving her as the girl, she should always have been). It would be a nice message to send to watchers.
     
  18. Coloratura

    Coloratura Unsung Aria Premium Member

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    *SPOILERS FOR 1x03*

    *YA BEEN WARNED!*

    *FINE! HAVE IT YOUR WAY, YA CHEEKY BASTARDS*



    Where Bortus gives baby Topa (the name they gave her after the operation) the stuffed Rudolph tells me that he has every intention of nurturing her until she is old enough to understand what is going on, and letting her choose where her heart decides to lead her. I expect conflict between Bortus and Klyden because of this.
     
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  19. ChasFink

    ChasFink Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is also a valid scenario, as is a purely sexist motivation to deliberately rid the species of females. However, neither of these is really necessary unless a follow-up episode requires it. In any case, what I really don't think is happening is that females are hatching left and right but the people believe it's only once every 75 years. That figure is almost certainly an exaggeration, but even if it overstates the rarity by a factor of 1000, females are still pretty rare.

    And I agree, I don't want to think about it any more.
     
  20. Skipper

    Skipper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I believe that gendercide is a quite visible line.