Well, Sisko's a special case, I grant you.
"Set Course For Home: In Defense Of STAR TREK: VOYAGER"
- Thread starter Qonundrum
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The article, I feel, sets up a false choice between gritty survival, and totally episodic shows. The medium is to provide a sense of connectedness, or continuity of time. When a console blows up' let it stay down for the next episode, before it gets repaired. Let them trade for alien technology that results in a station looking non-starfleet. In short, they don't have to be running from death like in year hell, just that time passes and there are permanent effects... and stick to the limitations laid out at the beginning like photons. For example, have them run out and then decide a makeshift, lower yield one that they can use and replicate going forward. I dont say any of this to suggest voyager was a bad show, just that they had opportunities missed to be more unique.
I think there are more good episodes than most people remember. But I don't like that this brings up the oft-cited false imperative that it can either be strictly a dark gritty survival drama or it can be light hearted TNG-lite fluff.
This is the same argument I see made here a lot, "Oh would you have liked them to be at each others throats all the time like BSG?" No, no I would not, but perhaps they should occasionally have actual philosophical differences that cause friction and maybe they should occasionally seem like they're alone and struggling for resources. It's not all one or all the other, I think the best shows are capable of both dark and light tones.
Arguing against the extreme is a straw man argument, and it's the only response you seem to get to arguments that Voyager should perhaps have been slightly darker.
The article also argues that defanging the Borg made them more interesting, but to me it just made them more generic, less unique. The problem isn't that they changed them, it's that they moved them toward the average as opposed to finding some new unique aspect to them to make them more interesting.
And it's hard to ignore the fact that they wrote a great concept for a character, a woman who was assimilated as a girl, spent her life as a Borg and then was rescued and had to re-adapt and rediscover what it means to be free and human, and then they promoted the character as the show's sex object, which feels like a collapse of artistic integrity.
So yes, Voyager has some high quality episodes, but the series' goal was clearly to just have 'More TNG, More TNG'. It never found its own voice because it was trying to mimic another show's voice. And that's ultimately what made it bland and forgettable.
This is the same argument I see made here a lot, "Oh would you have liked them to be at each others throats all the time like BSG?" No, no I would not, but perhaps they should occasionally have actual philosophical differences that cause friction and maybe they should occasionally seem like they're alone and struggling for resources. It's not all one or all the other, I think the best shows are capable of both dark and light tones.
Arguing against the extreme is a straw man argument, and it's the only response you seem to get to arguments that Voyager should perhaps have been slightly darker.
The article also argues that defanging the Borg made them more interesting, but to me it just made them more generic, less unique. The problem isn't that they changed them, it's that they moved them toward the average as opposed to finding some new unique aspect to them to make them more interesting.
And it's hard to ignore the fact that they wrote a great concept for a character, a woman who was assimilated as a girl, spent her life as a Borg and then was rescued and had to re-adapt and rediscover what it means to be free and human, and then they promoted the character as the show's sex object, which feels like a collapse of artistic integrity.
So yes, Voyager has some high quality episodes, but the series' goal was clearly to just have 'More TNG, More TNG'. It never found its own voice because it was trying to mimic another show's voice. And that's ultimately what made it bland and forgettable.
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I'm glad the Borg kept their zombie look from TNG:First Contact rather than the original black packet dead look from TNG!
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I agree with thus. In TNG they just looked like guys in black spandex.
It's sad to knock them really as my favourite TNG is Best of Both Worlds and I thought they were awesome in that!
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I enjoyed all the star trek on tv in the 90's . All series had some problem episodes but I think the actors really elevated the material. I thought Kate Mulgrew did a great job, even if the writing had her contradicting herself on occasion, she still played it with conviction. I never saw the BSG revival so I never made the connection that how that show was presented may have fueled some of the ' voyager should have been grittier' complaints .
Yeah exactly. "Continuity" doesn't need to be a dirty word, or to mean writing ongoing story arcs or continuing plots or spinning a story in season seven out of a line of dialogue from season one or whatever. Continuity just means remembering how a particular character might react in a situation because of an event from their life that we know from an earlier episode, or (as you say) something as small as staying within the limitations of the format as established in the goddamn first episode. Maintaining continuity is just a matter of basic housekeeping on any TV show, whether episodic, serialized or anything inbetween. And to be honest, for the most part Star Trek was usually pretty good at it.
Voyager is usually good with continuity too. In a lot of cases it's slightly under the surface so it does involve a bit of thought. It's not right out in the open like some of the big arcs in DS9. I think that's why people don't see it. You do actually have to think a bit.
I 100% agree, for the most part, Voyager did actually have a reasonable sense of continuity that seldom gets acknowledged. This was a show where the main showrunner herself wrote novels exploring the backstory of the characters in more meaningful detail than any other Trek before or sinse for goodness sake, if anything the sense of continuity and reality was actually backed up by stuff like that.
But I also think the change of showrunner halfway through damaged that just a smidge. Braga seemed more keen on following the beat of his own drum than necessarily following the tapestry that Jeri Taylor was weaving.** How's that for mixing my metaphors?
A good analysis actually.I 100% agree, for the most part, Voyager did actually have a reasonable sense of continuity that seldom gets acknowledged. This was a show where the main showrunner herself wrote novels exploring the backstory of the characters in more meaningful detail than any other Trek before or sinse for goodness sake, if anything the sense of continuity and reality was actually backed up by stuff like that.
* How's that for mixing my metaphors?
I would have lied to see more arcs and better continuity in the series. After all, Voyager was the perfect show for such things.
I think if you watch seasons 4-7 you will see those arcs.
Braga didn't continue with everything that was laid down previously, but he did establish some new arcs later in the show that were greatI 100% agree, for the most part, Voyager did actually have a reasonable sense of continuity that seldom gets acknowledged. This was a show where the main showrunner herself wrote novels exploring the backstory of the characters in more meaningful detail than any other Trek before or sinse for goodness sake, if anything the sense of continuity and reality was actually backed up by stuff like that.
* How's that for mixing my metaphors?
Braga loved two things imo. The character he created, 7 of 9, and the arc dealing with what it means to be human. This is why 7 and the doctor took center stage, and to a much lesser extent, B'Elanna. Janeway was only added, imo, because she was the first female captain and so he was forced to deal with her but notice how Janeway changes once Braga takes over. Much less free spirited, more tortured and at times unstable. She struggles between duty and her human frailties, the understandable mistakes she makes. This is Braga imo. The struggle to find our human nature and find a balance within ourselves.
He wrote this way for TNG as well.
I'd say that initially, Branon Braga firstly offered us the worst episode it was possible to have with Threshold (even if I pretty enjoy this episode, for O'Neil's acting and J/P encounter) then the best with the Borgs, principally Seven of Nine's character. And you were right, cathadowi8, with Braga, we see more about Janeway's limits to balance her duties as captain and her principles/feelings as woman, to the point that sometimes, her struggles made her as an mentally deranged/confused captain and individual.
-> I wonder if Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Archer were found in the same situation, would they have been treated in the same way were treated, with all the struggles, doubts, etc..?
-> I wonder if Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Archer were found in the same situation, would they have been treated in the same way were treated, with all the struggles, doubts, etc..?
It's true that Braga gave us the worst of Trek. But he also gave us the very best of Trek.
I'd say that Theshold was an industrial accident which was heavily corrected later. That being said, Braga was lucky to have a Rick Bernan, ready to give him a second chance, in his pocket. Some other EP would have fired him further to this transience or kept him away from the writing room..., what Braga has done with Ron Moore besides!
I don't know if braga would have been fires for one bad episode. At the time it may not have seemed bad, plus they did win an emmy for it. But Braga did write other episodes that were very good, plus the movie First Contact
For the most part, I enjoyed Voyager but one of my issues with it is encapsulated in an episode like the one where Torres gets all depressed and wigged out on thrills and near death experiences because there was no build up to it in preceding episodes and no follow up after it. It was all contained in one episode. I also remember an episode where the Delta Flyer gets destroyed and then the next episode, it's been completely rebuilt. I also think that the ep, Year of Hell, should have been a season long arc.
I'm not saying that every episode should have fit nicely together like a puzzle, I just think they could have done a better job at knitting things together and providing a bit more continuity from ep to ep.
I'm not saying that every episode should have fit nicely together like a puzzle, I just think they could have done a better job at knitting things together and providing a bit more continuity from ep to ep.
This is pretty normal for all Trek. Characters have a huge crisis and it's never addressed again. TNG and DS9 had this happen too.
As for the Delta Flyer in this case there were two episodes aired in reverse order that explain this better. In the beginning of Drive they are testing the new Flyer. This was filmed and should have aired before Imperfection....in fact in Imperfection you can see Tom and Belanna both wearing wedding rings.
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