Then I will dislike it (like elements of DIS seasons 1 and 2, or PIC season 1) and probably not watch it more than once (like Star Trek Into Darkness, though that was more because it was profoundly stupid. It was also wrongheaded in its approach to these kind of things).
Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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Is it not incumbent upon the audience to determine if it's good or bad, not being told so by the text? I would like to think that the Trek audience is intelligent enough to figure that out.
I think you are (purposefully?) missing the point. I don't need the program to tell me whether the element is good or bad. Yes, that should be evident from the show, I have my own morality to tell me so independently, and I don't need Trek to spell it out with some overwrought metaphor - like half-black and half-white faces.
But what I need is for Trek to, in-universe, present the element as bad. It goes back to the whole Trek-ian ideal that humanity can improve, that we can be better and do better (not that we always do or that we are always perfect). In Trek, Starfleet and the Federation are idealized versions of what we could be in the future. They don't have to always be right or always achieve that better nature, but to be true to Trek, they need to always be striving for that improved nature, improved being.
Embracing a concept like Section 31, as Discovery has done repeatedly, and presenting it as something good and positive is antithetical to Trek. Discovery has in generally presented Section 31 as something generally good - they have cool tech and cool starships, they have cool AI programs that guide Starfleet strategic thinking, they do the dirty work that the uptight Starfleeters are unwilling to compromise to do, we need them out there, etc. - and that any bad element is only due to the occasional "bad apple" like Control going rogue. This is the exact opposite of what Trek should be presenting. The main characters should not like or trust S31; Starfleet in general should not like S31; a few Badmirals can employ or support it (like Adm. Ross did) but our heroes should oppose them (like Bashir did).
This is what DS9 did right in their original presentation of S31: S31 basically embodies "the ends justify the means"; where the rest of Starfleet, the Federation, and Trek itself says "no, the ends don't justify the means." By embracing S31 as a key element of a show, and not treating it as the anti-Trek concept that that is, is a disservice to Trek.
No I wasn't but I think it misses the point of Trek, and ignores how Discovery presented Section 31.
Respectfully, I just don't see it.
I liked the DS9 episode where Obrien worked undercover for the Orion Syndicate. I don't mind the Orion Syndicate as the backdrop of a Star Trek story. Would I want to see a Star Trek series centered around it? Absolutely not. That's how I feel about Section 31. A tv movie? IM om ok with that I guess.
Putting the moral and ethical issues aside, I just don't like how modern Star Trek has portrayed them. Ds9 treating them the best. On Discovery , the shadowy mystique about them was undermined by how much "in your face" they were IMO. Yeah yeah Discovery's mission was "classified " etc. But they were treated too casually IMO to us as an audience. Sometimes less is more. To some degree, Voyager did the same with the Borg.
Putting the moral and ethical issues aside, I just don't like how modern Star Trek has portrayed them. Ds9 treating them the best. On Discovery , the shadowy mystique about them was undermined by how much "in your face" they were IMO. Yeah yeah Discovery's mission was "classified " etc. But they were treated too casually IMO to us as an audience. Sometimes less is more. To some degree, Voyager did the same with the Borg.
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The Discovery was practically a black op site in of itself. Of course you would see more.
https://trekmovie.com/2023/05/08/shazad-latif-waiting-to-hear-about-the-star-trek-section-31-movie/
Shazad says he's still waiting on news. Could be lying though. This is "Javid Iqbal" we're talking about after all.
I'm beginning to wonder if the Section 31 movie might be in the TNG period. Ash Tyler could still be alive as he's biologically a Klingon (the same way Arne Darvin lived till DS9). In that case, Kirk's body in Picard could be a hint for a plotline for the Section 31 movie, and they have Paul Wesley around...
Shazad says he's still waiting on news. Could be lying though. This is "Javid Iqbal" we're talking about after all.
I'm beginning to wonder if the Section 31 movie might be in the TNG period. Ash Tyler could still be alive as he's biologically a Klingon (the same way Arne Darvin lived till DS9). In that case, Kirk's body in Picard could be a hint for a plotline for the Section 31 movie, and they have Paul Wesley around...
Why is one of those better than the other?
I don't need Trek to tell me anything, except stories with relatable people and situations. It's not Sunday School.
I think Section 31 sucks as an idea and in executiion and always has, BTW. It's not sophisticated or ambiguous or "realistic." It's a simplistic paranoid idea of the sort that that appeals to conspiracy buffs. And that's boring.
Or, it could be done without him.
Well we don't know for sure. Lars Mikkelsen denied up until literally the recent Star Wars Europe convention that he was going to play live action Thrawn. Shazad knows how to keep a secret, he did play Voq after all.
That being said, we obviously have far bigger problems right now with productions being halted over the writer's strike and until that gets resolved, and we have no idea when that will be, it's probably too soon to get up in arms over a production that, like every other project now in pre-production stage, is going to have to get over this very significant strike issue first before anything happens.
Remember when none of the TNG cast had been approached about Picard, then Riker, Troi and Data showed up in season one?
And remember that time Benedict Cumberbatch denied being Khan for like 2 years?
They set Ash up as S31 boss at the end of Disco S2. He really should be there.
Even if he doesn’t show up in S31, there’s still SNW, and possibly LD or PRO. I’m pretty sure he’ll be back someday.
It always has, even Discovery.
And 15-year-old malcontents who think they've 'figured it all out'.
There's a tentative filming date, October. This will obviously depend on the outcome of the strikes
https://trekcentral.net/star-trek-section-31-has-a-filming-date/
https://trekcentral.net/star-trek-section-31-has-a-filming-date/
I'll take what I can get. And yeah, hopefully the strike is over by September or something.
I loved Captain Philippa Georgiou and only kind of liked Emporer Philippa Georgiou, but more Michelle Yeoh period is good enough.
Here's hoping.
I'm not hold my breath on the strike being resolved by October.
Go ahead bookmark this post. I'll own this shit if I'm wrong.
Go ahead bookmark this post. I'll own this shit if I'm wrong.
I mean, if it's not then what's the harm?
People are convinced this show/film isn't happening so nothing will change until it actually comes out.
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